Your NASA membership number: #123688 (F-BOD)

[380ss]

Greetings. I'm finally a member.

I spent about a week reading over everything, and I'm excited to get started. I have a 2002 Tom Henry Racing Camaro (tomhenryracing.com) that I'll be banging gears with. It's nothing special though, some GMMG mods/build-up. I've been adding numerous suspension parts.

I've had one run during a local SCCA event here and must say I'm hooked.

Based on some of the locations I've seen posted for tech will be pretty far for me. I'm living in CO Springs so I may have to take advantage of your track tech inspections.

Some of the questions I have are as follows:

1. Do we need #'s if we are participating in the HPDE#'s events?

2.If so, were do we acquire those from?

3. What is the length of a typical track day? Time spent trackside, on the track, etc.

Thanks and look forward to meeting with you all in March. Especially looking forward to meeting with the F-Bod owners.

Patrick

[bpanther]

Based on some of the locations I've seen posted for tech will be pretty far for me. I'm living in CO Springs so I may have to take advantage of your track tech inspections.

Some of the questions I have are as follows:

1. Do we need #'s if we are participating in the HPDE#'s events?

2.If so, were do we acquire those from?

3. What is the length of a typical track day? Time spent trackside, on the track, etc.

Welcome to the NASA family!! I'm working on a tech shop in the Springs. I'm actualy heading down that was now...

1. You should have a 3 digit # if you are in HPDE. It's just used for indentification rather than "The Blue Subaru" or "The Red Miata".

2. We've got some local sources (I think they'll chime in) and there is www.gogogear.com - they are the official NASA supplier for graphics. Tell Ali you want #'s for HPDE and he'll get you what you need.

3. You'll be busy from 8am until 4pm! 1-1/2 hours with you behind the wheel. Time riding with the instructor plus classroom time will be another 3 or so hours (depending on your level).

[380ss]

1. You should have a 3 digit # if you are in HPDE. It's just used for indentification rather than "The Blue Subaru" or "The Red Miata".


Thanks for your reply. Are the numbers something we have to come up with and "register" somewhere? Do we need to have them on/availble prior to the first HPDE.

Thank you

[MHISSTC]

Nice ride!

I can't wait to see it in person and maybe go for a little ride.

[380ss]

Nice ride!

I can't wait to see it in person and maybe go for a little ride.

No problem. I always have a seat open for a mustang fan. ;)

[JLMounce]

1. You should have a 3 digit # if you are in HPDE. It's just used for indentification rather than "The Blue Subaru" or "The Red Miata".


oh hrmmm. On my order for HPDE 1 I put in 2 digit numbers for the preferred numbers.

I'm not assuming this will be a problem. I'll just add a number to it.

[Warrtalon]

Thanks for your reply. Are the numbers something we have to come up with and "register" somewhere? Do we need to have them on/availble prior to the first HPDE.

Thank you

Hey, Patrick, this is Clayton from the SCCA event (grey Evo). It's cool to see guys doing both of these types of racing! When you register for the event, it asks you to pick a number and alternate number, if I recall.

[380ss]

Hey, Patrick, this is Clayton from the SCCA event (grey Evo). It's cool to see guys doing both of these types of racing! When you register for the event, it asks you to pick a number and alternate number, if I recall.

Good to hear from you Clayton. By the way, your car is awesome. I've been doing some research on your car, and all I can say is wow. I went ahead and pick a couple different numbers, thanks for the info. I really enjoy the sport, and I'm looking for as much seat time as possible. I would like to know if you've done any other upgrades since you've owned it. Thanks

[bpanther]

I went ahead and picked a couple different numbers, thanks for the info.

Gee.... did anybody else pick 719? Bueller? Bueller?

Nope... You're good!!

[Warrtalon]

Good to hear from you Clayton. By the way, your car is awesome. I've been doing some research on your car, and all I can say is wow. I went ahead and pick a couple different numbers, thanks for the info. I really enjoy the sport, and I'm looking for as much seat time as possible. I would like to know if you've done any other upgrades since you've owned it. Thanks

Have I done any upgrades since I bought it? Yeah, I bought it new, so I did all the upgrades:

- 3" turboback exhaust
- Manual boost controller @ 26psi
- Ported/coated stock manifold and turbine housing
- SS tubular o2 housing
- Alcohol injection

- Cams get installed on Friday along with a custom retune for both the cams and altitude (haven't been adjusted for altitude, but the car still runs very well)

I have some small mods like fuel pump, cone filter, and blow-off valve, but those are support mods that other cars aren't typically interested in hearing about.

The bad part is some SCCA official contacted me and said I'm not allowed to run my alcohol injection, so I can't come back. It stinks, because I would have been competing for top 3 in the class this season. Now, I just have to hope that Dave says its ok for me to run alky in the NASA events.

[bpanther]

Now, I just have to hope that Dave says its ok for me to run alky in the NASA events.

Provided you aren't drinking it or injecting it into your veins during the event, we don't care.:D Installation must be safe (your setup of SS hoses and SS tank sound fine) and will be part of your tech inspection.

Note.. this is for HPDE. If you were to be in a race class it might be illegal depending on which class.

Are you going to be at MAC on Saturday for dyno time?

[Warrtalon]

Provided you aren't drinking it or injecting it into your veins during the event, we don't care.:D Installation must be safe (your setup of SS hoses and SS tank sound fine) and will be part of your tech inspection.

Note.. this is for HPDE. If you were to be in a race class it might be illegal depending on which class.

Are you going to be at MAC on Saturday for dyno time?

I'm dyno'ing at MAC on Friday at 4pm _before_ the cam install and retune by my sponsor Dynoflash. I will also get my tech inspection done then. I'll still be up North on Saturday to hang out and watch all the other tuning being done by Dynoflash over at 9SR, but I should probably try to schedule my after-cam-and-retune dyno on Saturday to see the gains. I will call on that here in a few mins.

[380ss]

The bad part is some SCCA official contacted me and said I'm not allowed to run my alcohol injection, so I can't come back. It stinks, because I would have been competing for top 3 in the class this season. Now, I just have to hope that Dave says its ok for me to run alky in the NASA events.

How was it that they discovered you were running alcohol? Was it disclosed prior to the event, or was it due to the smoking numbers you posted after the event?

Is there not a class for that type of setup?

You definitely would have competed for the top spot, I have no doubt in my mind.

[Warrtalon]

How was it that they discovered you were running alcohol? Was it disclosed prior to the event, or was it due to the smoking numbers you posted after the event?

Is there not a class for that type of setup?

You definitely would have competed for the top spot, I have no doubt in my mind.
I don't know how. Somehow, the actual Safety Steward for Solo found a thread on one of my Evo message boards where I was discussing the results as well as the legality of alky in SM class. I had found out already that I wasn't explicitly allowed to run alky in SM, which was fine with me (although disappointing), but then that person who saw the thread emailed me and said not to come back without the alky removed. I had no idea it was 100% illegal to have it - I just figured it would bump me into some crazy class where I didn't belong. I would have been fine with that, but now I can't even race, and it's not like I can remove the alky or turn it off.

Anyway, somehow the carts are allowed to use pure methanol FUEL, but I can't spray atomized alcohol for the cooling effect. Bummer...

[380ss]

I don't know how. Somehow, the actual Safety Steward for Solo found a thread on one of my Evo message boards where I was discussing the results as well as the legality of alky in SM class. I had found out already that I wasn't explicitly allowed to run alky in SM, which was fine with me (although disappointing), but then that person who saw the thread emailed me and said not to come back without the alky removed. I had no idea it was 100% illegal to have it - I just figured it would bump me into some crazy class where I didn't belong. I would have been fine with that, but now I can't even race, and it's not like I can remove the alky or turn it off.

Anyway, somehow the carts are allowed to use pure methanol FUEL, but I can't spray atomized alcohol for the cooling effect. Bummer...

Interesting; have you poured through the rule book to ensure this guy is legit in what he's telling you?

I don't have the faintest idea in what fuels are allowed or not allowed, but I would want to know if it was me.

Out of curiosity, how much HP do you suppose your making just with the ALKY setup?

[Warrtalon]

Interesting; have you poured through the rule book to ensure this guy is legit in what he's telling you?

I don't have the faintest idea in what fuels are allowed or not allowed, but I would want to know if it was me.

Out of curiosity, how much HP do you suppose your making just with the ALKY setup?

Yes, I've been reading all through the rules, and it never says I can't have alky injection and never says it is disallowed due to safety concerns, but apparently SCCA rules work backwards. This means that things have to be EXPLICITLY included, else it is excluded. So, since it says "Water Injection is allowed" in SM but doesn't specifically say "alcohol injection," I'm not allowed to use it even though I do have water injection but am using a different fluid - you can use water, washer fluid, methanol, alcohol, or any mix thereof and it works, just with different cooling properties. I don't see how that keeps me from using it in higher-level classes, but it's apparently not explicitly allowed anywhere.

I have sent a rules interpretation request to the Solo Events Board (SEB), which is what the rulebook says to do if there is any problem like this. Hopefully, they respond and explain it to me. It may come down to water injection including any injection or it may come down to me being banned for life. At least I can do the NASA events, which are more important to me anyway, though lesser in number.

At 500', I put down 341whp/361wtq in 65-degrees and high humidity due to a downpour outside. I'm going tomorrow to see how much power I lost due to altitude. My butt dyno says "very little," but I'll be hitting the same dyno type using UNCORRECTED numbers to be sure. Then, right afterwards, the cams go in along with a retune...

[MHISSTC]

HPDEs are NOT racing and are NOT competitions...remember that for the upcoming track events...and therefore do not limit or prohibit modifications you can do on your car. The racing groups are, however, a different story.

If you're interested in getting into one of the NASA race groups, that's how the NASA rules work too. If a modificantion is listed, you CAN do it. If it's not listed, forget about it. I've heard it described as the opposite of the "stock car rules" mentality.

You can get the rules changed, or "clarified". I'm in the middle of doing my background research and parts gathering for my CMC car build. In my process of asking questions on the national CMC forum about what I can and can't do according to the rules, I got two different rules put on the list to be rewritten for additional "clarification" in 2007. Cool, huh?

[380ss]

Yes, I've been reading all through the rules, and it never says I can't have alky injection and never says it is disallowed due to safety concerns, but apparently SCCA rules work backwards. This means that things have to be EXPLICITLY included, else it is excluded. So, since it says "Water Injection is allowed" in SM but doesn't specifically say "alcohol injection," I'm not allowed to use it even though I do have water injection but am using a different fluid - you can use water, washer fluid, methanol, alcohol, or any mix thereof and it works, just with different cooling properties. I don't see how that keeps me from using it in higher-level classes, but it's apparently not explicitly allowed anywhere.

I have sent a rules interpretation request to the Solo Events Board (SEB), which is what the rulebook says to do if there is any problem like this. Hopefully, they respond and explain it to me. It may come down to water injection including any injection or it may come down to me being banned for life. At least I can do the NASA events, which are more important to me anyway, though lesser in number.

At 500', I put down 341whp/361wtq in 65-degrees and high humidity due to a downpour outside. I'm going tomorrow to see how much power I lost due to altitude. My butt dyno says "very little," but I'll be hitting the same dyno type using UNCORRECTED numbers to be sure. Then, right afterwards, the cams go in along with a retune...

I see where you’re coming from, and if what you say is true then I can only hope you get the clarification you’re looking for. Nonetheless, I wish you luck.

Those are great numbers you’re putting down. I'm guessing you’re putting down a little over 400 crank HP (dependent on drive train loss). I'm not clear on 4whl setups and I anticipate approximately just over 460 crank HP when you’re done, but of course that depends on your cam selection. Do you plan to do anything with the heads to help with flow?

A lot of the race folks here in CO run forced induction due to the thin air. Me I like to be a natural type dude. I’d rather go with cams and heads to get my natural aspirated numbers up; if and when I want the big HP gains, I’ll force it. That way it will only build on my base (natural) numbers.

I’ve been considering a cam head package with great flow numbers. But at my level I don’t think HP is what I’m lacking in right now. I have a lot more learning to do behind the wheel. Once I feel my driving game is getting better, I’ll stick it to-em. I got a bead on a package that will get me up over 500 crank HP. (GMMG in GA) Some of my fellow SVT Mustang buddies are having a tough time with high HP #s at the SCCA cone events. Whether its driver or excessive HP or a combination of the two I’m not sure, but as I stated earlier 380 is enough for now.

[380ss]

HPDEs are NOT racing and are NOT competitions...remember that for the upcoming track events...and therefore do not limit or prohibit modifications you can do on your car. The racing groups are, however, a different story.

If you're interested in getting into one of the NASA race groups, that's how the NASA rules work too. If a modificantion is listed, you CAN do it. If it's not listed, forget about it. I've heard it described as the opposite of the "stock car rules" mentality.

You can get the rules changed, or "clarified". I'm in the middle of doing my background research and parts gathering for my CMC car build. In my process of asking questions on the national CMC forum about what I can and can't do according to the rules, I got two different rules put on the list to be rewritten for additional "clarification" in 2007. Cool, huh?

I wish LS1 type cars could run in CMC events. Based on what I've read I could only participate in AI.

[Warrtalon]

I don't need to touch the head right now with my bolt-ons - the engine already outflows the turbo at high rpm. We have a lot of cheap bolt-ons we are able to do to get great power out of the stock turbo - up to 400whp/400wtq (sea level). After that, though, it starts getting expensive with turbo upgrades, fuel system upgrades engine/head upgrades. I'll be happy with my instantaneous ~380wtq with minimal turbo lag, because that is what I use most in auto-x and road racing.

[raybob9289]

I wish LS1 type cars could run in CMC events. Based on what I've read I could only participate in AI.


380ss,
Won't you race AI with us?

[380ss]

380ss,
Won't you race AI with us?

I'm not at this point. I'm just an HPDE 1 guy right now. We'll see how it pans out.

[Warrtalon]

Patrick, I got dyno'd at MAC and put down 296whp/325wtq. That's down from 341whp/361wtq with most of the loss above 5500rpm (8000rpm rev limit). My boost couldn't sustain itself up top - I guess due to the thin air.

My corrected numbers were 370whp/405wtq, but that's too high. I also then had cams added along with a complete retune, so I may be around 320whp/350wtq by now...

[380ss]

Patrick, I got dyno'd at MAC and put down 296whp/325wtq. That's down from 341whp/361wtq with most of the loss above 5500rpm (8000rpm rev limit). My boost couldn't sustain itself up top - I guess due to the thin air.

My corrected numbers were 370whp/405wtq, but that's too high. I also then had cams added along with a complete retune, so I may be around 320whp/350wtq by now...


Great numbers, and I see that you'll be staying with us in SCCA. Thats great news, guess I'll hook a tow rope to your car so I can get similar times as you. :D