Head and neck questions

[chris_venturini]

I definitly plan on getting myself a head and neck restraint and want to have it before the start of the next season. Im just very unsure on what to do with the non-clarification of what will be legal vs what is best to get. I want to get an isaacs for the cost and safety advantages but dont want to get screwed when/if the rules come about and require a hans device.
Any opinions on what i should do? I know dave cant give a clear answer but maybe a suggestion? I dont want to dump 900 bucks on a hans device when its more expensive and doesnt provide as much protection, but i also dont want to spend money on an isaacs if it means ill have to end up buying a hans anyway... that would really suck

[leggwork]

there are six SFI 38.1 certified devices, so HANS isn't the only game in town. There is a pretty good comparison writeup at http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Head_and_Neck_Restraints

bruce

[chris_venturini]

thanks bruce!

[chris_venturini]

money for me is a big issue. Does anyone have any input on the lower cost sfi rated devices?

[Weston]

Well, we're already into December and the CCR says it may be required on Jan 1, 2008, but they still don't give us much information at all... no more than what it did a year ago. My bet is that they're just going to push that date out again. So, like many other people, I'm going to continue using nothing at all, because I don't know what will or wont be acceptable whenever they enact this requirement... My preference would be the Isaac device, but then there's the whole SFI 38.1 technicality with that.

[GaryM05]

HANS is supposedly coming out with a less expensive option:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=276443&FS=

Interesting that there is nothing on the official HANS site about this yet (at least not that I can find), but it might be worth considering this one, given that it starts to make price a bit less of a consideration (not that this is necessarily the best device for anyone...I'm just passing along the info.)

Thanks for the link, Bruce - lots of good reading there!

[svochuck]

Some regions are racing in January... so it looks like a H&N is not required . ? ??? Thats a bunch of cash to spring on us and by spring I mean we need to know what is required before we buy it. .

[micahbones]

My preference would be the Isaac device, but then there's the whole SFI 38.1 technicality with that.

I agree with the preference for the Isaacs given that it offers more lateral protection.

Can we as racers (well, not me yet) have any say into the matter? Any chance NASA would approve/require two devices? The HANS monopoly on the "officially approved" market kinda sucks...allows them to charge whatever they want.

[leggwork]

there are six SFI 38.1 devices, not just HANS, and the $695 price point of the Leatt Brace is, I bet, a strong contributor to the decision to bring out a $695 version of the HANS. I bet other H&NR device prices will come down as well. Healthy competition finally.
cheers,
bruce

I agree with the preference for the Isaacs given that it offers more lateral protection.

Can we as racers (well, not me yet) have any say into the matter? Any chance NASA would approve/require two devices? The HANS monopoly on the "officially approved" market kinda sucks...allows them to charge whatever they want.

[944-spec#94]

I have posted something similar on the NASA forums, but some may not read that much.

Back in 2005 I saw head and neck restraints as something that would be mandated at some point. I also did alot of looking at the HANS and Isaac. I perfered the Isaac for a few reasons, but still felt both would provide excellent protection. In the end I got HANS since it was SFI38.1 certed and I felt that if any sanctioning body required a device they would default to SFI38.1. Thus buying a HANS meant I was "safe" from any risk that the sanctioning bodies may put rules around a H&N restraint.

If you are in doubt and want to risk the $$$ on something may be outlawed you can consider the Isaac. I consider it to be great restraint and well worth the money. The downside is the risk it may be no longer legal. If you don't have the $$$ to buy something twice a HANS is perfect since any rule the sanctioning body puts in place will end up allowing the HANS. So in your investment is safe.

Personally I'd rather spend more time focusing on how drive faster than urging NASA or SFI to allow me to use an Isaac.

BTW... I have had my HANS for 2 years and after some initial routine changes on getting suited up and in/out of the car I forget I am even wearing it when racing. Very comfortable and I am quite happy with it.

[bpanther]

Can we as racers (well, not me yet) have any say into the matter?

Yes. If you prefer the Issacs (which many do) and NASA or anyother sanctioning body passes a rule that says the device must be 38.1 certified effectively outlawing your device, vote with your entry fees and refuse to race with that sanctioning body.

And yes, this is a serious answer. I would prefer to loose entries than have racers using devices that they do not feel safe using.

If and when a H&N requirement goes into effect we will have a similar 6 month window to do it much like the side nets.

[chris_venturini]

well the hans sport looks like a better option financially, maybe ill wait for that and just avoid any headache (just have walletache)

[ianacole]

Well, it's been decided:

15.17.8 Head and Neck Restraint
Use of a head and neck restraint system or device carrying an SFI 38.1 certification is mandatory for all drivers as of June 2, 2008. References and information can be found in “Appendix D,” section #29.0 of the CCR.

[leggwork]

Safety Solutions is apparently also coming out with a $695 R3.
bruce

[kevintee]

That'll add a boatload onto the startup costs for up and comings.

[micahbones]

That'll add a boatload onto the startup costs for up and comings.

Indeed it does...$700+ is a big pill to swallow when you still have to install a roll cage, buy a certified helmet and racewear, etc.

[leggwork]

all will come in time, grasshopper


Indeed it does...$700+ is a big pill to swallow when you still have to install a roll cage, buy a certified helmet and racewear, etc.

[cullenwinter]

Indeed it does...$700+ is a big pill to swallow when you still have to install a roll cage, buy a certified helmet and racewear, etc.

In the real world, they call that cost of doing business...;)

[Kai]

Hard to believe that the Isaac device is going to get squeezed out by these new regulations.
I own one. I hope that they don't outlaw it for HPDE.

[944-spec#94]

the 2008 NASA CCRs are out and require used of a SFI38.1 Head & Neck restraint by June 2, 2008.
See Page 82 of the PDF

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

[Snymo]

Just to be clear, the new CCR requires a Head and Neck device for Competition classes, not HPDE.

Rick

[kevintee]

Anybody using an R3? I've been reading up on some of the various devices and a lot of the marketing is kind of suspect.

Also an interesting concept here:
http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R3headneckrestraintRental&cat=82

[Evil86Saleen]

Crap. I dont see the Isaac on the list. Looks like I will be voicing my opinion with the old check book.

kyle

[BADVENM]

So what happens to our helmets? Can we drill into our current helmets for the supports (I'll have someone who knows what they are doing do mine) or do we have to get new ones?

Sounds like a group buy is in order once we find out exactly whats needed and we can agree on purchasing the same kind.

[leggwork]

the snell tests specify a zone above a certain line on the helmets. The anchor points for any of the existing HNR devices are below that line, so it is ok to install them on an existing helmet. Measure twice, drill once.
bruce

So what happens to our helmets? Can we drill into our current helmets for the supports (I'll have someone who knows what they are doing do mine) or do we have to get new ones?

Sounds like a group buy is in order once we find out exactly whats needed and we can agree on purchasing the same kind.

[944-spec#94]

Measure twice, drill once.
bruce


Ha Measure three time for good measure.

I drilled my helmet and install the HANS anchors. It was not as complex as it appeared. I did measure 3-4 times and even did a tape mock up just to see how it would work. All was fine and the install went smoothly. Make sure you check your angles with respect to the shoulder harness. The HANS instructions have guidelines and I suggest following them. This will ensure optimum safety by having the shoulder harness in the right spot. I needed to pull my seat pad to get in the right spot for my HANS and then add in a large wink mirror. The right side net I installed combined with the limited side movement of my head meant the pass side mirror became useless. So I had to install a big wink mirror. I also had to redo my window net as I could no longer put it up when in the car. I just could not see enough. So some fiddling around and was ok.

Here is a Nasaforums thread where I posted pictures.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13311

[raybob9289]

I use the Safety Solutions Hutchens Device D-cell.
Does anybody know if it would be compliant, or will I have to get a Hans.
BTW, Leary Racing will be selling the $645.00 version in
stock at his store on Evans & Navajo.

[CMC#35]

I was doing some weekends with CECA in 2006, and they invited the Midwest HANS rep to come to Pueblo for one of their events. Great guy. I bought my HANS from him for two reasons: a discount (not a big one, but every $ helps) and installation on the spot.

There is a HANS rep here in Colorado; maybe he'd be willing to do a similar kind of thing. If not, I still have the name of the Midwest rep.

I've been watching HANS pricing for several years, and my suggestion is to NOT spend a bunch of time trying to put together a group buy; I watched several groups try it, and it fizzled. Let's go direct to a rep, and see what we can do.

-chris

[Snymo]

Raybob, the current SFI 38.1 list (http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1) is:

Hubbard-Downing HANS Device
Leatt Brace Moto-R Sport Device
LFT Technologies R3 Device
Safety Solutions Hutch-II Device
Safety Solutions Hutchens Hybrid Device
Safety Solutions Hybrid X Device

I don't see yours specifically mentioned, but maybe the name changed or something. I'd call Saftey Solutions and see if it's SFI compliant or if it will be. I know I have to send my HANS device back in to be retro-SFI certified (bought mine in 05 before the SFI rating).

Local HANS dealers are (from the HANS website):
AAI Speed Equipment
Arvada CO, 800-296-7562
Factory Trained

Leary Racing Products
Denver CO, 303-922-4227
Factory Trained

Surface Exploration
Arvada CO, 303-940-1500
Factory Trained

Checkpoint Racing
Denver CO, 303-296-3030

Rick

[leggwork]

the D-cell did not pass the SFI 38.1 tests
bruce


Raybob, the current SFI 38.1 list (http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1) is:

Hubbard-Downing HANS Device
Leatt Brace Moto-R Sport Device
LFT Technologies R3 Device
Safety Solutions Hutch-II Device
Safety Solutions Hutchens Hybrid Device
Safety Solutions Hybrid X Device

I don't see yours specifically mentioned, but maybe the name changed or something. I'd call Saftey Solutions and see if it's SFI compliant or if it will be.

Rick

[ianacole]

I just got off the phone with Rob at CheckPoint Racing. They are willing to bring out their collection of Head & Neck Restraint products to one of our annual tech inspection days for everyone to take a look at and ask questions as needed (show and tell, if you will). Their current stock consists of:

R3
Hybrid
HANS (Standard)
Hutchens II

They are also working on getting the newest HANS ($695 model) in stock.

Would this be of interest to the group? If so, I will work with Rob to assure his availability once the annual tech inspection date is set.

[raybob9289]

Thanks Rick,
Thanks Bruce
I guess I'll be getting a Hans in June!!!
That sucks,,

[chris_venturini]

this is great that were all working together, ill be following this thread closely

[svochuck]

Dave at DartAuto.com one of our sponsors is working to become a Hans dealer. The PCA is also making next summer a 38.1 requirement . So Dave is looking at doing a large buy and passing along savings to us !

more info to follow.

[BADVENM]

I just got off the phone with Rob at CheckPoint Racing. They are willing to bring out their collection of Head & Neck Restraint products to one of our annual tech inspection days for everyone to take a look at and ask questions as needed (show and tell, if you will). Their current stock consists of:

R3
Hybrid
HANS (Standard)
Hutchens II

They are also working on getting the newest HANS ($695 model) in stock.

Would this be of interest to the group? If so, I will work with Rob to assure his availability once the annual tech inspection date is set.

Slightly off topic, I met Rob a month or two ago about stuff needed for/with the cage install which is in early January. We talked for 20-30 minutes or so, great guy!! I'm purchasing my net, roll cage padding, shutoff switch, and a few other things from him through Hank.

We talked about the HANs stuff for awhile as well. Overall impression is he a great guy who I hope succeeds in his business and racing ventures.

[Kai]

Just to be clear, the new CCR requires a Head and Neck device for Competition classes, not HPDE.

Rick

Are time trials a "competition class?"

[Weston]

Are time trials a "competition class?"

Not as far as I know... Time Trials should be the same rules as HPDE 4.

[Snymo]

From the TT rules:

10.1 Car Preparation, Technical Inspection, and Logbooks
All cars must meet the safety and car preparation standards specified at Section 11 of the NASA CCR. All convertibles must meet the roll bar specifications contained in the CCR for HPDE participation. In addition to the HPDE safety rules, it is highly recommended that all TT vehicles carry a NASA CCR compliant fire extinguisher with a metal mounting bracket (not on the “A pillars”). As well, we encourage all participants to obtain and use as much CCR compliant personal and vehicle safety equipment as possible.

So the answer is no and yes. ;)

Rick