Speeds In HPDE #1

[Mikecolosprings]

I was Just Wondering How Fast We would be going in HPDE #1 at Pueblo And Lajuanta, Because I have An 1988 Mustang and it is A 2.3L N/A Motor Wich is very slow(If AnyBody Has any info on Boosting This Motor On a very tight Budget please tell me about it) and The Tires also Suck, There New But have big Side Walls and roll over.
So I was Just wondering about Cornering Speeds Mainly.

[JLMounce]

speed is dependant on the car and the driver. Don't worry about the car being slow. Just make sure it is safe.

between 110-120 on the front straight in my stock 99 Cobra in HPDE 1. Could have easily been north of 130 but that breaking zone comes up fast and I wasn't pushing it incredibly hard until about the last 2 sessions when I was starting to feel a bit more comfortable.

[Mikecolosprings]

I don;t think It'll go over 100, i've gotten it up to 85MPH(the max on speedo) but it took some time. The only reason I was concerned about the speed is because I didn't want to hold people up, and if I remember Correctly theres no passing in HPDE#1 that would make it even worse for the other people.
Check out the pic you can see the tires, Thats also what i'm woried about. I've driven it pretty hard on the street and the tires don't Hesitate to roll over. Should I just wait until I can save Enough Money for better Rims and Tires

[JLMounce]

As long as the tires are in good condition I wouldn't see a problem with them. Pretty much everybody I've talked to about getting started in road racing has told me that you learn best on crappy street tires. It teaches you the limits of the car etc. Don't worry about not being fast or not having race tires and wheels etc. Likely even your current car is beyond your potential to drive it without instruction and practice. When you start getting to the point that you are meeting or exceeding the car's limits, then it's time to upgrade. The biggest thing now is just making sure that the car is safe to be out on track. On the left there is a link to download forms. Go ahead and download teh HPDE tech inspection form and make sure your car will pass that tech. Then just come out and have fun!

There is passing in HPDE 1 but only in designated passing zones and if the car in front gives a point buy in that specificied passing zone.

[ker]

i think jl has answered some of your questions and i will weigh in with my thots.

hpde is really an environment to learn. hpde 1 and 2 are not about speed but rather learning to drive the car. as mentioned above, the car usually has more potential than the driver when first starting out. you mention the top speed of your car as a potential hold up to others - don't worry about this. the only time it's really a factor is in the straights were passinng is allowed. a point by is required for each and every car that you will allow to pass. being in a slower car is really helpful in honing your "situational awarness". sometimes the drivers of faster cars are unfotuantly hampered by their speed and never see the better driver coming out of nowhere because they have not been "forced" to develop this critical area of driving. (still on speed here). speed then becomes a relative factor in the turns. some cars that are slower on the straights are faster in the turns - this can be due to better handling, but just as often due to a better driver that took the time to learn the skills of driving instead of using the throttle (i'll steal a phrase here from someone else) as a "binary switch" in the straights.

tires - jl is right. "crappy" tires when first learning can keep you from going to far to fast and force you to learn to drive properly. again, better to learn how to drive the car first. it's a whole lot easier to learn the proper skills at slower speeds. some folks (and i'm not being critical here) when just starting out have cars that have far, far more potential than the driver. they seem to get around the track fast when first starting out because they have the throttle to do it. and then can't figure out why that little 4 banger dodge srt4 beats them around the track (if they only knew rick) as others experience levels increase.

keep asking the questions because that's how we all learn. and remember, we all started out at some point with no prior knowledge of this addictive sport. and yes, we are all still learning too.

[JLMounce]

Well said Kevin. I can certainly attest to being way out of my leaque with my car.

I kindo f baught in to the common misconception that mustangs aren't worth a damn in the turns. with the Help of my instructor I cam back thuroughly impressed with my car. It did things around thos 10 turns at PMI that I never thought it could do. Let alone in stock form (sans sub-frame connectors).

With the tires I have on the car I was able to approach the limits of traction and "feel" what the car was doing while still being at a relatively safer speed doing it.

Like Kevin said the speed can play a role in not learning from the get go. I had a situation come up in one of my sessions, that had I not been moving slower I may not have noticed a car coming up around me when it shouldn't have.

Fortunately enough for me I had let a few cars pass me early on in teh straight and thus I was still in "watch for cars" mode and going a good bit slower. I was able to notice the car coming up around me and adjust my driving behavior so that nothing ill came of it.

In that respect Kevin is completely right about the situational awareness with slower speeds.

[RichV]

Mike, look up what a SVO Mustang is. That will give you an idea of boosting power out of that 100hp monster.

:)

[Mikecolosprings]

Yeah I've Been Doing alot of research.
I found everything I need at TURBOFORD.ORG

See what I'm thinking is running in PT, Right now It's classed in PT-G(Yeah I know it''s slow).
But what I want to do is make as much N/A power as posible and do alot of Sspension and Weight Reduction.
I think I could Make190HP with alot of work(I love Porting and building custom engine parts)Maybe 2.5 stroker, But I don't know I hear that the bearing inserts aren't very strong

[MHISSTC]

Very good discussion here. Excellent points made.

A well maintained and safe 4-cyl. Mustang on street tires is fully acceptable and fully encouraged. I like to instruct and do ride-alongs in street driven cars. The street tires are talking to you. There is usually plenty of body roll and a lack of power that will clearly communicate when you are and when you aren't driving smoothly and when you are able to carry more momentum out of a corner after driving the proper line through the corner.

Just for comparisons sake, take a look at what I had out on the track at MMP this past weekend. Since Instructors are allowed to do so, I was running it in the HPDE Group 4/TT run group with the likes of a Ford GT, TT prepped 'Vettes, BMWs, etc. Did I pass anyone? Yeah right! By the end of the looonngg front straight these cars easily had a 50% greater speed than I did. Was it challenging and fun exploring the limits of the mightly rental Malibu? Darn right it was!

http://www.st-tel.net/~mhisstc/rental.jpg

[Evil86Saleen]

So Scott what your saying is that you dont want to ride with me in the Saleen with the street tires and stock brakes. :eek:

This is going to be interesting to say the least and a learning experience.

kyle

[MHISSTC]

Um...I've got some great recommendations on instructors for ya! ;)

As long as you don't start out "balls-to-the-wall" it'll be fine. It's better to start out slow and work UP to your/the car's limit than it is to fling yourself/the car off the track at turn #1 and then try to pick up the pieces and figure out what went wrong.

[Evil86Saleen]

ha ha. The pucker factor is pretty high when you mash the throttle going straight.

The car itself is more important than going fast so I dont see myself getting crazy with it. I just need the seat time behind the same style chassis that we will be racing.

BTW did you see the dyno#s that I posted........yeee haw. 430/520 at the wheels with only 8lbs of boost. I ran out of fuel with the 36s so we kept the boost down and took alot of timing out of the car. With enough fuel and a 10-12lbs of boost it should have no problem making enough power to crack the stock block. I wont take it that far though. Its plenty fast for the street and I have a race car to build you know.

kyle

[Mikecolosprings]

I know nothing about the SVO and SALEEN, Hey EvilSaleen is that a v8 or a 2.3?

[Evil86Saleen]

The Saleen is a single turbo 5.0 with the usual boltons. Heads, cam, intake etc etc.

The SVO is the 4cyl turbo car. Its down right now due to a broken ring. The dumby before me rebuilt the short block and didnt file the rings correctly. :mad:

kyle

[MHISSTC]

...is that a v8 or a 2.3?

:eek:

You need a serious amount of time hanging out with all the Mustang boys at LaJunta.

[JLMounce]

ack, can't believe I'm goign to miss la-junta. New wheels won't be here in time so I'm out of the game currently.

[Mikecolosprings]

:eek:

You need a serious amount of time hanging out with all the Mustang boys at LaJunta.

Yeah I do, I'll be there to help out but can't afford the HPDE right now,Also I wouldn't Run on these tires anyway, there ok but they roll over bad

[Cybr]

In my first HPDE event HPDE1, I was hitting 138 on the straightaway, and was running on my winter tires in my srt4... I still held fine, thanks to Rick Snyder as my instructor :)

[leggwork]

have you checked the top speed rating on those winter tires lately?

I'll reiterate the earlier instructor comments - HPDE is for learning and there is no need to go really fast - smoothness, consistency and awareness are highly regarded. Looking ahead at the upcoming corner instead of the speedometer also gains points. :cool:
cheers,
bruce

In my first HPDE event HPDE1, I was hitting 138 on the straightaway, and was running on my winter tires in my srt4... I still held fine, thanks to Rick Snyder as my instructor :)