I'm Concerened No rear Sway Bar in stang

[Mikecolosprings]

i have a 88Mustang 2.3 N/A and I'm going to be running HPDE soon, But the problem is that it has no rear Sway bar and i'm very woried about rear axel Deflection

Should i go to the junkyard and get a stock gt sway bar?
If anybody has done this and can tell me how Please Help me.

[JLMounce]

until you get seat time I really wouldn't worry about doing anything to the car to increase it's handling ability. Your mustang currently may not have the handling prowess that you'd like but I can pretty much assure you that unless you've had some seat time with an instructor that even now you won't be able to drive the car to it's limits.

When you learn the car's limits then you should start modifying to increase it's handling potential.

Alos sway bars really shouldn't be the first thing you add to the car. start with spring and shock choice to begin with. Then tune with sway bars if needed. In some cases you may want to actually take out or lower the stiffness of a sway bar.

It might surprise you to know that Maximum Motorsports actually sells a LIGHTER then factory sway bar for mustangs that have high rate springs (specifically coil-overs).

[Mikecolosprings]

Thank for the info, But I think you maybe misunderstood me. It's a Non-Turbo 4Cyl Model and the Non-Turbo 4cyl cars came with NO Rear Sway Bar.
If you did read it right, Then Cool I won't worry About the Bar

Who Has A Budget Priced Race Coilover?

ALSO Whan you Say Lighter It might not mean less strength(I.E. Stronger/Lighter Materiel)
Thanks

[JLMounce]

You may not need a rear sway bar, that's what I was getting at.

By lighter I meant less stiffness, should have been more clear on that.

suspension tuning follows a pretty simple step by step process.

spring rate > shock valving > sta-bars

There's a ton of information and resources out there about this. Just throwing suspension parts at a car may not achieve the desired results that you would like.

Here's some resources that have excellent suspension information.

www.lateral-g.net
www.corner-carvers.net
www.pro-touring.com

Carefull at these places though. Use the search function instead of just asking questions. Theres a lot of members on those sights that will jump down your throat for asking a question that is easily attainable through the search function.

Also check out the big forums.

www.nasaforums.com

[Mikecolosprings]

Carefull at these places though. Use the search function instead of just asking questions. Theres a lot of members on those sights that will jump down your throat for asking a question that is easily attainable through the search function.



Yeah I know a little about that from this site

Thanks for the help

[JLMounce]

Some of them go WAY overboard about it, but that is what the search function is for. Plus then if you find the info via a search, you don't have to wait for the discussion to happen, the info is already in your hands.

Corner-Carvers.net is probably the worst but probably has the best info.

[Mikecolosprings]

I know the question has probably been answerd before, but it's kinda nice getting opinions from people you will be racing with not some random people(I understand if the question has been asked on this forum, justtell me to search for it)

You Know What I Mean?

[Evil86Saleen]

agreed. Get the car on the track first and them worry about suspension enhancments.

The little N/A 2.3 doesnt really need a rear sway bar at stock HP levels.

kyle

[Mikecolosprings]

Well it's not the HP, I was only concerned about the weight and Axle Deflection

[MHISSTC]

What exactly do you mean by "Axle Deflection"?

Do you mean an actual bending force on the axle housing, an axle shaft movement inside the housing, the entire axle assembly moving side-to-side because of the el-cheapo Ford design, or suspension travel to mention a few of the possibilities?

We have several experienced folks here who can provide answers to any/all of those more specific topics.

[Mikecolosprings]

I mean The whole Assembly Moves sise to side. I've seen on the Dream Car Garage the tested the stock fox with no sway bar and the assembly moved like3"-4" side to side

[MHISSTC]

I mean The whole Assembly Moves sise to side. I've seen on the Dream Car Garage the tested the stock fox with no sway bar and the assembly moved like3"-4" side to side

The effect of a sway bar on the side-to-side movement is small. The portion of the rear suspension that acts most to locate the axle side-to-side are the angled upper control arms. The only reason the sway bar would have an effect on this might be to limit the amount of total roll the rear suspension would experience by limiting the difference in axle travel between the left and right side, which may then decrese some of the overall deflection experienced by the rubber bushings in the upper arms.

There are better ways to positively locate the rear axle than by using angled upper control arms.

[Mikecolosprings]

I just can't spend alot of money, And my car is to slow to really worry about it(N/A 2.3 OHC 120HP)

So all new bushings should help out some right?


I thought Panhard Bars were the best Axle locating part but People on CmC.com told me they weren't that greatnd.

[MHISSTC]

"new" bushings would be good if you are getting new rubber ones to replace the worn out, hard and cracked ones that may currently be on your car. If "new" means stiffer poly ones, don't bite on the hype. Depending upon the bushing chosen, you may be introducing a bind into your suspension that you definitely don't want.

Panhard bars are a good and simple way to locate a rear axle. Some folks view the large arc the bar and axle follow to be a detriment and upgrade to a watts-link at the expense of intoducing some complexity to the setup.

I'm not going to advocate any particular setup, since when I have asked the same question in different places, I have received as many different solutions as there were replies. My advice to you if you upgrade your suspension would be to do your research, find a design philosophy...and price...you can accept, and buy into a particular well designed package instead of buyuing a piece here and there from different manufacturers since the designs may actually conflict.

[Mikecolosprings]

I was thinking about using Steeda but there a little Expensive so i'm going to use Maximum they have somthing for everybody.
So you mean the Prothane bushings aren't good?
So what would you say is the best Bushings for this?

[MHISSTC]

I see we're responding to several different posts simultaneously.

My answer would be "it depends". You'll have to have a particular goal in mind for the car with a particular suspension setup. As was mentioned before, often times the manufacturer of a particular suspension system will be able to give you some great information on their design and how it will fit into your goals with the car.

[JLMounce]

Not that poly busings are crap (actually they are, if you need poly just go delrin).

The problem with just replacing bushings with "upgraded" ones is that you may be placing them in a location where you'll actually hurt performance. The 4 link used in mustangs is sort of like a converging 4 link design. It uses angled upper control arms that converge towards each other to locate the housing left and right. The arms need to be able to move both front to aft but side to side at the same time. The problem with that is they have traditional bushings in them which try to reduce some of that side to side movement. It's not a huge problem because from the factory the bushings are soft rubber. If you put a harder poly or even worse yet a solid delrin bushing in place you remove the ability for the control arm to achieve it's side to side movement. This causes bind in the system and will unload the tires which can cause a severe loss of traction.

This is actually where the GT mustangs get their characteristic "snap oversteer." At the limit, the stock rubber bushings have started to bind and the suspension unloads as the limit is crossed. Traction is lost at this point and good luck getting your rear-end back under you.

MHISSTC is write though, there's numerous ways to go about correcting some of that. It really depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

If it was me though I'd integrate a 99+ IRS into the back end...Why? Because SLA for the win!

[Mikecolosprings]

Soo What if I don't use a kit?

If i use a basic(hpM performance) Panhard bar kit I should use stock style Bushings
Where Can I get Stock Style Bushings?(Maybe Year one?)

[Evil86Saleen]

As long as you have a three piece bushing on the AXLE side you will be golden. MM/Grigs/Steeda all offer the correct three piece bushing to cure the "snap" oversteer problem that is associated with poly bushings in the rear of a mustang.

kyle

[Mikecolosprings]

Are you talking about the Spherical Type that fit into the stock upper arms? Those are the only different type I saw in the Steeda Catalog