American, Jap, German, Sweedish, Italian What's your Favorite

[Mikecolosprings]

What's your Favorite car to RACE

Only one Pick

If OTHER Post on Here

[Evil86Saleen]

I like pretty much anything that is front engine rear wheel drive.

I choose the fox mustang and "other" foxchassis cars for the simplicity, parts availability, and cost.

That and those early four headlight cars just look mean as all hell.

kyle

[NASACastang]

I love the American Muscle. I am a huge fan like RayBob of the old Trans Am Wars of the late 60's and early 70's. I also really enjoyed the resurgence of Trans Am in the late 80's and early 90'. I love both Mustangs and Trans Ams and think they both look cool as hell with huge slicks stuffed up under them and roll cages and graphics etc. But by the same token any full time race car looks cool to me and I don't care what brand or what country it comes from. I will still stick with American Muscle because I am a die hard and I like the sounds, the looks, and the availability of parts.

[Mikecolosprings]

But by the same token any full time race car looks cool to me and I don't care what brand or what country it comes from.

Thats one thing you and I can Agree on, I think that any race car looks amazing. I think show cars are ugly, they don't work. I think retired race cars are the ultimate show car, because they actually worked at one time. I don't care if they have paint chips or scrapes.

[Mikecolosprings]

:( So What we only have 10 people on this site or what?
People can't just click one time and vote. :(

[CMC#35]

I can't figure out how to get to the Poll and vote. But if I could, my vote is American. :)

[Mikecolosprings]

It's at the top of this thread, I don't know what you mean. If I remember right there is a button under the results, and you click vote. I made it so people can only vote once, so I can't vote for you.

Is anybody having a problem?

[JLMounce]

CMC and AI for the win!

Although I pretty much like anything that is front engine rear drive (and soem select AWD platforms) I just prefer the look and sound of the american muscle cars.

Plus I like it out of smite. There is this common misconception that american cars like mustangs and camaro's don't handle. I like to shove good lap times down those people's throats.

[CMC#35]

I forgot: I already voted.

[Mikecolosprings]

CMC and AI for the win!

Although I pretty much like anything that is front engine rear drive (and soem select AWD platforms) I just prefer the look and sound of the american muscle cars.

Plus I like it out of smite. There is this common misconception that american cars like mustangs and camaro's don't handle. I like to shove good lap times down those people's throats.

It's not that they don't handle good it's that the others handle better, But I have a mustang that i'm building so I'm going to learn how they handle.

[Warrtalon]

Plus I like it out of smite. There is this common misconception that american cars like mustangs and camaro's don't handle. I like to shove good lap times down those people's throats.

Well, pretty much anything can handle well after enough suspension upgrades just like anything can go fast with enough money spent. In stock form, though, they generally don't handle well. For instance, my suspension is still stock, and about the only thing that can outhandle my car stock for stock is a Z06 (assuming same driver in both cars).

However, despite my knowledge of and preference to use AWD 4-cyl turbo cars, I much prefer the sound of a roaring V8. That includes vettes, z28s, Trans Ams, Mustangs, GTOs, etc...

[Mustcone347]

For instance, my suspension is still stock, and about the only thing that can outhandle my car stock for stock is a Z06

thats a broad stroke to paint.
The poorly handling cars (the push factor) is generally designed into the cars by all manufactures. As far as the ability of your car to out handle most has more to do with weight/AWD/and the lack of newer suspension technology on american cars.

does your car out perform porsche/lamborginis/ferraris/subaru sti/lotus and the like.

what i am saying is that there are alot of cars out there that will give the EVO a run you have just not seen them or they have had poor drivers.

and yes looking at your lap times at Peublo you are fast in the EVO but was that in a race condition (not HPDE) theres a huge difference(mainly in the brain)

malcolm

[95sprtcpedrvr]

I voted american because I love this country. But I'll drive anything that I like.:)

[Bottoz]

Well, pretty much anything can handle well after enough suspension upgrades just like anything can go fast with enough money spent. In stock form, though, they generally don't handle well. For instance, my suspension is still stock, and about the only thing that can outhandle my car stock for stock is a Z06 (assuming same driver in both cars).

However, despite my knowledge of and preference to use AWD 4-cyl turbo cars, I much prefer the sound of a roaring V8. That includes vettes, z28s, Trans Ams, Mustangs, GTOs, etc...

Stock Cobra (upper image) vs Stock EVO & STi (lower image). Just some FYI. Looks pretty close to me. Some better, some worse.

http://yibe.com/stuff/handed.jpg

Full Data is HERE (http://yibe.com/stuff/cobra_data.pdf) and HERE (http://yibe.com/stuff/STivsEVO8.pdf)

[Mikecolosprings]

Yeah What Muscle Car Fan Made That Up?
Were Talking about Cameros and Mustangs Not Supercharged v8's with IRS that Cobra is a Low Price Super Car, were talking about solid rear axle's
Look at the slolom and tell me there not better handling cars, yeah the skidpad is a comparison but you have to look at the grip and speed that they can change directions

Got to go the race is about to start

[JLMounce]

Yeah What Muscle Car Fan Made That Up?
Were Talking about Cameros and Mustangs Not Supercharged v8's with IRS that Cobra is a Low Price Super Car, were talking about solid rear axle's
Look at the slolom and tell me there not better handling cars, yeah the skidpad is a comparison but you have to look at the grip and speed that they can change directions

Got to go the race is about to start

Actually Road and Track made that up...

The slalom shows transitions. Big cars don't transition well it's simple physics. On a road course like PMI there's very few turns that require a transition between turns like you would see in a slalom. Coming out of turn one and quickly in to turn 2 is on example.

As far as solid axles go, you'd be surprised how competitve a stick axle can be. Take a look around www.pro-touring.com and see what people are doing with stick axles and leaf springs.

And for reference the 2005 FR500C Mustang race car won the rolex cup up against BMW M cars etc...with a stick axle.

[NASACastang]

Ok, so let me get this straight. The Subaru Impreza is a standard import, but the 03-04 Cobra is a low priced Super car? The Subaru WRX starts at @$32,995 and goes up from there. 300Hp Turbo, all wheel drive, Brembo brakes, 4 wheel independent suspension, and all the Rally look. The Cobra priced out around $35,000 (As long as you did not get reamed by the market adjustment at first) has a Supercharged V8 that makes 390HP(or more?!) has 4 wheel independent suspension, PBR brakes, and rear wheel drive. I don't see how this is a cheap Super Car! The two are fairly equally matched and both are excellent cars. Like all the different vehicles out there it is very difficult to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges. To say that all imports handle better than domestic muscle cars is plan stupid. Can the average joe hustle a civic around a corner better than a Mustang? Maybe, Maybe not the fact that the average joe probably can't handle the additional power that even the v6 Mustang has may be more true than a difference in handling. Like so many people on this forum have stated before. It is much easier to learn to drive fast and correctly in a underpowered, under tired car than it is in a high horsepower, huge tired vehicle. I think at times this makes the muscle cars appear to be ill handling vehicles. Heck I had an 91 SHO for a while that was a blast to drive, but even with the 220 HP it was almost impossible to get that car out of shape because there just wasn't enough power(torque) to do it. The car handled alright, but honestly not anywhere near what a Mustang can do even stock.

[JLMounce]

What I really like is that we're talking about the 03/04 Cobra and it's not even the best handler in the mustang family.

If you were to buy an SN95 or New Edge mustang specifically for road racing, your best bet is the 99/01 Cobra. THe all aluminum engine drops about 150 lbs off the front of the car when compared to an 03/04 Cobra. The 99+ Cobra IRS although adding weight does so to the rear (yet sheds 100 lbs of unsprung weight). A bone stock 99/01 car weight balances about 53/47 with more on the drivers side. The 03/04 cars come in around 57/43. The only thing limiting the 99/01 cars was fords choice to put 8" wheels and 245 series rubber on them.

[Warrtalon]

thats a broad stroke to paint.
The poorly handling cars (the push factor) is generally designed into the cars by all manufactures. As far as the ability of your car to out handle most has more to do with weight/AWD/and the lack of newer suspension technology on american cars.

does your car out perform porsche/lamborginis/ferraris/subaru sti/lotus and the like.

what i am saying is that there are alot of cars out there that will give the EVO a run you have just not seen them or they have had poor drivers.

and yes looking at your lap times at Peublo you are fast in the EVO but was that in a race condition (not HPDE) theres a huge difference(mainly in the brain)

malcolm

A couple of points. I was not referring to my driving or my lap times. I'm pretty new to non-linear racing (e.g. drag racing), so I'm not making claims off of what I've experienced or seen. I'm referring to taking a professional driver in one car, then putting that driver in the next car and comparing. My lap times were only in HPDE with no competition. Once I passed the other HPDE3 cars, I had free, open track for 4-5 straight laps, which is when I got my 1:45. I realize and know that my easy lap times there would not be the same in a race, but like I mentioned, I wasn't saying that no individual can touch me in a stock Evo, but rather the same driver in each car would run faster times with the Evo in most cases.

I apologize for not specifying American cars when I made the claim about the Evo's stock handling. It does handle slightly better than its arch-nemesis the STi, and it does outhandle some of the supercars, but for the most part, the supercars still beat it stock for stock. I linked a video earlier that showed a stock Evo MR FQ400 (driven by the show host) in the UK beating a stock Lamborghini Diablo (driven by a pro champion) around a road course, but that Evo is a very-expensive special addition with 400hp and tons of goodies, so it's not the same as what we get here.

Bottoz, unless I'm missing something, most of the Cobra numbers are way off from the Evo/STi. The Cobra has a skidpad advantage (honestly, I have no idea how that's possible, but it's in print right there), but both the braking distances and the slalom speeds show huge advantages for the Evo/STi. There really is no comparison in terms of handling between those 2 cars - the 03/04 Cobra was not built to be nimble (relative to the Evo/STi).

[Evil86Saleen]

wow. No one voted for Swedish or Italian cars.

BTW I like chili cheese Fritos and eat them all of the time. :D

kyle

[Mikecolosprings]

it kinda sucks That We only have 15 members too.

[Bottoz]

...
Bottoz, unless I'm missing something, most of the Cobra numbers are way off from the Evo/STi. The Cobra has a skidpad advantage (honestly, I have no idea how that's possible, but it's in print right there), but both the braking distances and the slalom speeds show huge advantages for the Evo/STi. There really is no comparison in terms of handling between those 2 cars - the 03/04 Cobra was not built to be nimble (relative to the Evo/STi).

Skidpad Advantage (speed turn corners) Cobra
Slalom Advantage (transitions) EVO/STi
60-80MPH Advantage (2.9 Seconds vs 3.4 Seconds) Cobra
Breaking Advantage (all around) EVO/STi

Eh, lots of factors to consider. These are silly magazine tests. Mainly, I suppose its the Driver that counts. I got a 1:51 my last trip to PMI. Hopefully with V710's I can pull it into the 1:4x's. :)

[Warrtalon]

I don't consider the 60-80mph acceleration to matter in terms of handling. I was only looking at the handling characteristics. The Cobra is obviously much more powerful in stock form and modded form.

Driver does matter, but again, my comments are only in reference to the same driver in both cars. Your trap speeds are 10mph higher than mine, so you're WAY more powerful, but I overcome that easily (so far) with the braking and handling advantage (both of which are stock on my Evo). The V710s will knock off a few seconds for you for sure, but they will likely get torn to shreds like mine did. I won't waste them like that again unless it's for competition reasons.

[Bottoz]

Roger that.

Now, if someone could produce a small supercharged v8 into the AWD and Handeling characertistics of an EVO/STi, and keep it under $34k, that'd be great right? :) Formitsubarolet needs to get with the program!

[Warrtalon]

I wonder if RayBob would be willing to drive something like that. :D

[Evil86Saleen]

Only if it has a built in beer dispensor

kyle