HPDE 3 format question

[cullenwinter]

I am considering a trip to Infineon either Sept. or Oct. and saw this on the event registration page. I wondered if the Hastings event might offer such an oppurtunity. I don't know if I can swing a trip to Ca. this fall, so I had to ask, and yes, I realize that I am trying to rush through the ranks !! See you in pueblo

HPDE 3 NOTICE:

We have recently changed the HPDE 3 program. It's still four 20-minute sessions per day, however it's now a two-day training program. Saturday will still be the same, whereas you slowly work up to passing everywhere by the end of the day. Sunday will be a continuation, starting with passing everywhere in the first session and then picking up the pace in the subsequent sessions. This should better prepare drivers for Group 4. Once the Group 3 leader signs off a driver for Group 4, the driver will receive a Group 3 graduation certificate in the mail.

As you will see below, HPDE 3 is only available on Saturday or both days. Sunday only entries will not be accepted. No exceptions.

[Warrtalon]

That is actually an excellent idea. I say this, because I asked a question at the very heart of this subject in our HPDE3 driver's meeting at La Junta. Several of us have aspirations to race or do time trials, so we must get to HPDE4. In HPDE4, you have to be aware of getting passed off-line, and you need to learn how to pass off-line. We can't practice either of these in HPDE3 in our region, because we can only pass in certain areas.

I think it would be awesome if we did a progressive program in HPDE3 where we work our way up slowly to more and more passing until we eventually have open passing. I also agree with disallowing Sunday-only entries.

HOpefully, Chuck and Dave will see this and comment. I think it's a great idea, but I also don't have the insight to know why it might NOT be a good idea.

[svochuck]

Wow I don't know what the other regions are doing but that just sounds wrong to me. Here is what I think.

HPDE 3 is a steping stone for drivers who want to work there way up to racing and TT, but where would the drivers go who don't want to move up ????

1st reason.
For the Drivers who want open passing HPDE 4 is where you do it and where you learn to do it well. When a Driver first moves into HPDE 4 they will learn all about being passed/Passing going into a corner and how to get out of the way (drive/pass off line) why would we want that in 3 ? What would a driver learn in HPDE 4 ?


2nd reason.
lets say I had a Shelby GT 500 ($$$$$) and wanted to run it on a track but I did not want some $3000 Porsche 944 dive bombing me going into a corner. HPDE 3 would be the right stoping point and the right group to be in, but not if it were being used for HPDE 4 training.

3rd reason.
HPDE is NOT RACING. remember Kevin asking the question in the HPDE /TT meeting "who is here to race" the correct answer is ..... nobody. So as you move up through the HPDE school you learn more skills so you can go racing later.

More info...
At LaJunta we only had 2 passing Zones in HPDE 3. We only needed 2 . . there were no trains no problems with a lack of passing areas. In Pueblo We added passing areas in HPDE 3 as We (Me and the HPDE Drivers) got more comfortable with the track and our other drivers so by the end of the day you never had to wait more than 2 turns for a passing area. HPDE 3 is really a customer focused Group I will add passing zones (or ask to add) when the Drivers want more. I don't think it's ever been a problem. If/When we have a Driver who wants open passing Don and I have made it real easy to get a Group 4 check ride and more than 70% of the Drivers have moved up right away.

Thats my 4 cents (inflation)
Chuck
HPDE Group 3 leader

[cullenwinter]

Thanks Chuck, my interpretation of what the Northern Cal NASA is doing, is that this is a one weekend chance for drivers that are trying to move up, not an ongoing change in how they structure HPDE 3. That might be a crowded situation for them and they're trying to advance folks. I agree with all your points completely. I have no idea how many drivers in our RM HPDE 3 group are even trying to make that leap, thought I'd just throw it out there

[Warrtalon]

That makes more sense if it's a one-time thing to free up a crowded HPDE3 group. As Chuck said, we had no problem with trains or anything at La Junta. We only had 5 cars (day 1), and the passing zones came up quickly. At PMI, it was more of a problem (in HPDE 1/2 mainly), but Chuck was able to adapt and change the passing zones to suit the drivers. I imagine if we had 20 cars in HPDE3, this would be more of an issue, but we've only had 5-7 the last 2 events.

[MHISSTC]

Excellent points Chuck.

Here's my experience as I moved up through the different run groups.

I moved quickly through Group 1 and 2 as my skills and on-track awareness quickly improved. I think the majority of our HPDE folks reside there currently because NASA is fresh to the region. I also think that will change very quickly with Group 3 becoming our most populated group as our current crew gains experience. Look how quickly so many folks have already moved up to the higher groups this year!

When I was running with different organizations in a "Group 3 environment", I very much appreciated the ability to run with folks who could very consistently drive the proper line with a high degree of situational awareness at a generally higher speed. This is where I spent most of my time up until fairly recently. Why? It was comfortable. I could push myself and my car pretty hard, but didn't have the worries of me pushing myself or my car so hard as to potentially cause damage.

I also didn't have the more agressive Group 4 drivers in close proximity to me and my street driven car, or attempts being made at passing in "interesting" locations on track. I'm not saying Group 4 drivers are any less safe. I feel they have just a little more aggressive or competetive nature. That's not where I wanted to place myself or my car, especially while I was still making paymets on my car.

I don't think I would have been nearly as comfortable running for so long in Group 3 if we were working up to passing everywhere on the track along with working to pick up the pace. I also feel that is what Group 4 is for. No one says you must pass at all locations or run all out in Group 4, it's just the group to be in if you want the oppurtunity to do such things if you have the desire and ability to do so.

[leggwork]

just a sidenote - I highly recommend trying to make it to Infineon. Absolutely awesome track! I did it last year as a BMW club guest instructor in a rental Mini Cooper and then at a one-day Russell school in their Formula Mitsubishi open wheel cars. What a hoot!
cheers,
bruce


I am considering a trip to Infineon either Sept. or Oct. and saw this on the event registration page. I wondered if the Hastings event might offer such an oppurtunity. I don't know if I can swing a trip to Ca. this fall, so I had to ask, and yes, I realize that I am trying to rush through the ranks !! See you in pueblo

HPDE 3 NOTICE:

We have recently changed the HPDE 3 program. It's still four 20-minute sessions per day, however it's now a two-day training program. Saturday will still be the same, whereas you slowly work up to passing everywhere by the end of the day. Sunday will be a continuation, starting with passing everywhere in the first session and then picking up the pace in the subsequent sessions. This should better prepare drivers for Group 4. Once the Group 3 leader signs off a driver for Group 4, the driver will receive a Group 3 graduation certificate in the mail.

As you will see below, HPDE 3 is only available on Saturday or both days. Sunday only entries will not be accepted. No exceptions.