Racin' is rubbin'

[bpanther]

I'd like to comment a bit on "racin' is rubbin'" and pull it into a different thread.

It's not so much that racing is about rubbing, its more that rubbing is often a result of racing. When two cars a racing door to door and neither driver is willing to give up a corner without cooperating, you may end up with contact. Let me state that a different way - if you are so stuborn that you won't give way or lift, expect that you may end up doing some body work or being DQ'ed.

Now, if drivers are willing to work together and give each other a bit of wiggle room it can work. I've seen it, I've done it. I saw Raybob and Tommy do it several times at LaJunta. Malcom said he'd rather go wheels off than have contact with another car - Great Attitude!!! This is what prevents body work and bad feelings.

Of course, sometimes stuff happens. Anytime you put a bunch of cars on (or over) the edge of control on a narrow track and expect them to pass, you will have body contact on occasion. Incidental "racing" incidents will happen and we just live with it knowing it happens in our sport.

There is a clear distinction between incidental "racing", intentional contact and blatent stupidity and the cases are handled differently. Contact resulting in significant damage, change in positions or deviation is subject to DQ. I've handed that penalty down dozens of times and will continue to do it to help keep people out of the body shop, out of the hospital and smiling.:cool:


Everybody should review the CCR and see whan you are needing to fill out a body contact report. Note that the form IS NOT a protest form. Even if you and a buddy do a bump (causing a dent) and then laugh it off, you MUST fill out the form and turn it in.

[Tommy55]

I have some black and orange on my rear bumper from a reckless 43 driver who tryed punting me ( oh I'm sorry, Love Taps as he put it). Do I need to file a report. Body damage is significant. Will his insurance cover the damages. And by the way, my neck hurts too. Is there a form for that.;) I love this racing thing. :D

[Tommy55]

Notice. He was behind me for four laps. Gotta love it. I will beat you sooner or later:p

[95sprtcpedrvr]

I fully understand about posting a rebuttal to the racin' is rubbin' statements. I was merely stating that if you want to race and be competitive to be in the running to take a win you more than likely will get some rubbin' and bumpin'. Unless you have less than a handful of cars racin' on the track with you or nobody else in your class. Also with that in mind as long as the contact is unintentional and not an attempt to take me out or push me out of the way I can take it.

It's nice to see you make some postings Tommy. Are you going to negotiate any turns in the dirt at PMI?:D Thats if you're going to be there.

[Tommy55]

Hopefully Pueblo has received some rain so I can see how my crops at turn one are doing. I really want to stay on the track and be some competition to Ray and Corey. Turn nine and ten might be exciting. Went off there a couple times also.
Hey by the way the chicken has a picture;)

[95sprtcpedrvr]

I'll be watching you!:D And I'll get some John Deere stickers for you too.

[Evil86Saleen]

Maybe some of you racers could shed some light on my quick question.

When your on track and racin would you not know when a rub/bump/love tap was intentional or just racin?

Just wondering because I have evry intention of getting on track and having fun. If another racer was to give me a little love tap or bump that was not meant to cause damage or wreck someone I really wouldnt mind.

Now if that contact was meant to destroy a car or to cause one to not be able to race that would be a little different.

Did that make any sense?

Basicly if Tommy and I where in a heated battle and one of the two of us rubed either by accident or just for position that wouldnt really bother me. Its bound to happen eventually.

I gotta ask guys. As a noob I really am ignorant about this kind of stuff and need to know/understand how other racers feel about this so that I know how to act/react when the fun starts.

kyle

[Mustcone347]

When your on track and racin would you not know when a rub/bump/love tap was intentional or just racin?
]
I really do not care what type of racing you are doing, (cept for stock car) any contact in road racing amatuer or professional is not a good thing and is generally not accepted as good racing ettiquette.............I do not need a love tap and if you do so you will probably get a whole face full of my rear tow hitch(look at it at the next event) If you are faster I will let you by (or the corner worker will let me know there is a race and I am not in it) in time but you will have to earn it......ie out brake me, out drive me, carry more exit speed there are alot of Honest ways to do it. Most incidences happen when the overtaking driver is not able to pass cleanly. Or he/she is plain stupid ie fast car bad driver

Sorry to preach but a love tap at 130 plus is a can of worms you do not want to open...Draft is one thing but bump drafting at speed is not safe. If this is your only means to get by I will let you go uncontested.

If you want to race clean lets "get it on"

Malcolm

[Tommy55]

I think you are absolutely correct. There should not be any tapping as it could be dangerous. When you are in a battle (and both in complete control)there shoulb be no contact. If one is out of control, it is the responsibility of the other driver to stay out of the reckless driver's way. At least thats what I think. If I know your out of control I am going to take advantage of it and wait until the right opportunuity to pass. At hallett there was no choice but to rub in a couple of instances. There was no where to go. But it was completely controlled. I don't know how to explain that it was safe because that is really not safe to say, but there was no choice and it really was not that bad. I am a noob also, but I think 99.9% of it is common sense

[CMC#35]

Tommy's comment about common sense is pretty accurate, but in racing series - including NASA - there are also rules, to "help" some folks keep their common sense.;)

I was hit twice in one race. The first was a fairly hard smack to my left front quarter panel in the first turn of a race; we were 4 wide from a rolling start, and I was on the inside - a little slip by the guy next to me, and boom. The second was a rear-end 'tap' by a guy who didn't have position in a corner, and didn't back off fast enough; my rear end was completely unweighted, and that little tap was enough to spin me around and off the track.

The first smack was totally a racing incidental thing. I wish it hadn't happened, but it sure wasn't the result of bad driving, or intentional. We shook hands, and that was that. The second tap was different: the guy knew he didn't have position, and didn't do the right thing soon enough. I, along with several other drivers, explained his error in great detail, with great passion; then, we shook hands on it, and moved on.

So, addressing one of Kyle's questions/comments in particular:

If another racer was to give me a little love tap or bump that was not meant to cause damage or wreck someone I really wouldnt mind.

Now if that contact was meant to destroy a car or to cause one to not be able to race that would be a little different.

kyle

If someone taps me intentionally, I'll be seriously in their face when the race is over. There is no place for that kind of thing in NASA. (I'd say 'racing in general' except that those idiots in NASCAR don't seem able to stop themselves.)

-chris

[Evil86Saleen]

I am not saying that it is acceptable!

I understand that sometimes it MAY be unavoidable and if that is the case then so be it. If I know that contact was not intentional and in certain situations possibly not avoidable it would not drive me to want to engage in fisticuffs or anything stupid like that.

My funds are pretty darn limited so I would rather not have to fix any damage.

I dont want anyone to get the impression that I want to make contact just that if it happens I will not be that guy throwing a fit over it unless it was intentional.

Maybe I'm just to easy going. :cool:

kyle

[Evil86Saleen]

]
I really do not care what type of racing you are doing, (cept for stock car) any contact in road racing amatuer or professional is not a good thing and is generally not accepted as good racing ettiquette.............I do not need a love tap and if you do so you will probably get a whole face full of my rear tow hitch(look at it at the next event) If you are faster I will let you by (or the corner worker will let me know there is a race and I am not in it) in time but you will have to earn it......ie out brake me, out drive me, carry more exit speed there are alot of Honest ways to do it. Most incidences happen when the overtaking driver is not able to pass cleanly. Or he/she is plain stupid ie fast car bad driver

Sorry to preach but a love tap at 130 plus is a can of worms you do not want to open...Draft is one thing but bump drafting at speed is not safe. If this is your only means to get by I will let you go uncontested.

If you want to race clean lets "get it on"

Malcolm

Understood and makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

kyle

[Evil86Saleen]

Tommy's comment about common sense is pretty accurate, but in racing series - including NASA - there are also rules, to "help" some folks keep their common sense.;)

I was hit twice in one race. The first was a fairly hard smack to my left front quarter panel in the first turn of a race; we were 4 wide from a rolling start, and I was on the inside - a little slip by the guy next to me, and boom. The second was a rear-end 'tap' by a guy who didn't have position in a corner, and didn't back off fast enough; my rear end was completely unweighted, and that little tap was enough to spin me around and off the track.

The first smack was totally a racing incidental thing. I wish it hadn't happened, but it sure wasn't the result of bad driving, or intentional. We shook hands, and that was that. The second tap was different: the guy knew he didn't have position, and didn't do the right thing soon enough. I, along with several other drivers, explained his error in great detail, with great passion; then, we shook hands on it, and moved on.

So, addressing one of Kyle's questions/comments in particular:



If someone taps me intentionally, I'll be seriously in their face when the race is over. There is no place for that kind of thing in NASA. (I'd say 'racing in general' except that those idiots in NASCAR don't seem able to stop themselves.)

-chris

Ok. Good to know.

I should reword my original post. I was assuming that all contact was unintentional.

Chris. Did you actually have fellwow racers intentionally bumping?

kyle

[Evil86Saleen]

Thank you gentleman.

All input and info is appreciated.

If anyone would like to add to this please to do. I need all input from you experienced racers so that I am educated and prepared and not making stupid mistakes.

kyle

[leggwork]

it takes more skill to race closely without contact so I look up to those that can do that successfully. It is a skill for all to aspire to. Part of racing is assessing the other drivers on the track and knowing who you can run closely and cleanly with. Avoid the yahoos (haven't seen much of that around colorado except maybe in spec miata).
cheers,
bruce


Thank you gentleman.

All input and info is appreciated.

If anyone would like to add to this please to do. I need all input from you experienced racers so that I am educated and prepared and not making stupid mistakes.

kyle

[raybob9289]

it takes more skill to race closely without contact so I look up to those that can do that successfully. It is a skill for all to aspire to. Part of racing is assessing the other drivers on the track and knowing who you can run closely and cleanly with. Avoid the yahoos (haven't seen much of that around colorado except maybe in spec miata).
cheers,
bruce

Bruce,
What class do you race in?

[95sprtcpedrvr]

Granted that I don't have the experience of others on the track but watching tons of races be it on the tube or in person I don't think a tap or shove can be interpreted as accidental or intentional while being in the cockpit. Nobody can watch every car that comes up on them and you can't feel what the other driver is going through in his/her car.

Alot of that stuff is left up to the officials monitoring the race which is why you should fill out the report Dave mentioned at the beginning of this thread and leave the repremanding to them as well.

As I'm sure it has been witnessed by many of you the confrontations done by the drivers and in turn makes them feel and look like idiots when they find out that the incident was unavoidable due to unknown circumstances.

[leggwork]

I've done ITE-U in SCCA and DM in BMW CR - now building a spec e30 car and hoping to jumpstart some interest around here in that class. Will run in GTS or PT until then.
cheers,
bruce

Bruce,
What class do you race in?

[CMC#35]

Chris. Did you actually have fellwow racers intentionally bumping?

kyle

Nope, never did. I didn't consider the rear-end bump mentioned in my earlier post as intentional; I know the guy was trying to back off.

-chris

[leggwork]

well, at the Grand Am race on Sat, Paul Edwards in a GTO demonstrates what can happen when you clip the car in front at speed. Joey Hand went for a ride - He is already released from hospital and nothing broken.
Stupid place for that low berm... Hopefully the fix that part of the runoff area before the NASA Championships ...

http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/everybodylikepi/?action=view&current=m3flipmp4.flv

Here's the blow-by-blow account from an interview with Joey
http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6724

damn!
bruce

[raybob9289]

Pontiac GTO 1; BMW 0 :cool:
I hope Beemer boy is OK.
That is a really bad place for a supercross jump.

[95sprtcpedrvr]

Holy Crap!!! Who put that speed bump there???:(

[bpanther]

I think it's part of the new "loop". They made an 1/8 (?)mile circle track and I think this was part of it.

[Evil86Saleen]

Nope, never did. I didn't consider the rear-end bump mentioned in my earlier post as intentional; I know the guy was trying to back off.

-chris

Ok. I have watched those vids of the texas boys like 30 times and it didnt look like any of the contact was intentional to me.

kyle