Bolt together cage legality

[HP2]

Question for the forum;

Bolt together cages are legal for use in what NASA classes?

Here is a supplier; http://www.autopowerindustries.com/rollcages.asp

TC

[bpanther]

There is no requirement in any race class that the cage be welded.

With that said, most people hate bolt in cages and after using one for part of a season take it out and have a custom bent and welded cage done.

[fhudsonjr]

Why do they hate it?

[MHISSTC]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/mtownneon/flip_fail.jpg

[fhudsonjr]

Well, that's simple , don't get upside down! rofl

[G-Man]

I agree - welded cages are better. Less bulky, tighter fit to car interior, feels more rigid, and more confidence it will be safe if you use it.

However, this photo shows a massive failure of the downtube attachments and maybe even missing reinforcements for the attaching plates. It appears to be a poor installation (and a very big hit).
How is this failure specific to a bolt-in cage?

[bpanther]

Less bulky, tighter fit to car interior, feels more rigid, and more confidence it will be safe if you use it.

Yeah... what he said :).

Since bolt ins are designed to usually fit a variety of years, cars with full interior and be able to remove easily, they usually don't fit all that well.

[docwyte]

Most bolt in cages fail because they're mounted to the weakest areas of the car. The floorpan and wheel wells are only single sided steel. Even with the reinforcement plates, they'll still punch through in an impact.

[G-Man]

Josh - interesting info, thanks.
How do the welded cages avoid punching through? Is it that they're welded to better attachment points?

[Robbie]

Josh - interesting info, thanks.
How do the welded cages avoid punching through? Is it that they're welded to better attachment points?

Larger surface area for the mounting point and added material welded to the attachment point making it thicker.

The 4 point roll bar I pulled out of my 924S weighed more than half of what my Hanks cage weighs. And its a ton safer. After seeing how some Autopower cages fit in other 944's, there's no way I'd get one over a custom built cage.

[docwyte]

Additionally most good cage builders weld onto either subframe or frame rail attachments, so multi layered steel.

Hank did my rollbar in my 944 and it's attached to the frame rails on the bottom of the main hoop and back to the rear subframe attachment points in the back...

[Weston]

Autopowers are quick/easy/cheap/transferable, but of course that comes with a compromise in other areas, fitment being the most noticeable. The main issue is that the halo is kind of in the way (can't mount a wink mirror, and need to adjust the seat angle to keep your head away), at least on the 944 ones.

I seem to recall a few special circumstances in the case of that overturned Mustang that had the main hoop's feet punch through (and I think that was only a bar, not a cage), but obviously most interior-compatible bolt-ins do attach to points that are not ideal. If you look at one of Hank's race car cages, they don't have to deal with the possibility of a stock interior and are able to attach to sturdier points.

[MHISSTC]

I seem to recall a few special circumstances in the case of that overturned Mustang that had the main hoop's feet punch through (and I think that was only a bar, not a cage)...

You are correct. I posted that picture as an example of what is found at the extreme end of the spectrum of bad ideas. I wanted to provide a better explanation, but didn't have the time to write one up. I'm glad to see everyone filled in the blanks.

[supermac]

Josh - interesting info, thanks.
How do the welded cages avoid punching through? Is it that they're welded to better attachment points?

They usually hunt for a better (thicker, multi layer steel) area that isn't limited by geting around interior parts, and then most I have seen have vertical as well as horizontal tie-ins.

When I first got into racing I bought a bolt-in cage, I test fit it in the car and then threw it in the trash.
In my humble opinion if you can't afford a good weld in cage you shouldn't be racing. How much is your life worth? Get with a good cage builder like Hank and do it right the first time

[ker]

in my humble opinion if you can't afford a good weld in cage you shouldn't be racing. How much is your life worth?

amen!!!!!!!

[G-Man]

(One reason I switched from Spec Rx-7 to the PT-E Rx-7 is to get a welded cage. I went directly to Hank's shop literally on my way home from buying it.)
Thanks for the sharing the good info and explanation.

[HP2]

There is no requirement in any race class that the cage be welded.


So the bolt together cages are legal for all competition classes at all levels? Wow! I'm a bit suprised by that. I could see these being approved for autocross since it is a typically lower speed activity. I maybe could see allowances for HPDE and maybe even time trials since there may still be a number of street cars in/at these levels. However, for dedicated competition cars, I'm suprised that they are allowed.

There is no doubting a weld in cage is superior in all apsects of safety, rigidity, and function. But I can also see where a removable cage will have appeal to anyone using their car as a dual purpose machine.

[docwyte]

Removing and installing a bolt in cage is not a small endeavor. To the point that if someone thinks they're going to be popping it in before an event and taking it out afterwards they're in for a nasty surprise.

Most also require the removal and cutting of interior trim pieces...

[Robbie]

So the bolt together cages are legal for all competition classes at all levels? Wow! I'm a bit suprised by that. I could see these being approved for autocross since it is a typically lower speed activity. I maybe could see allowances for HPDE and maybe even time trials since there may still be a number of street cars in/at these levels. However, for dedicated competition cars, I'm suprised that they are allowed.

There is no doubting a weld in cage is superior in all apsects of safety, rigidity, and function. But I can also see where a removable cage will have appeal to anyone using their car as a dual purpose machine.

I can see having a removable rollbar for a TT car, but taking a cage out to drive a wheel to wheel car in the offseason? That's a bad idea. You never know if your racecar is going to be driveable home in wheel to wheel. You'd also be making some big sacrifices in car competitiveness to do so. The only place a full cage belongs should be in an interior'd car is Showroom Stock or Touring.

Also, this is coming from a guy who has spent the past year driving his racecar to and from events. And has learned that he really should buy a tow vehicle.

[HP2]

I couldn't imagine using a bolt together cage in a dedicated wheel to wheel racer car. The concept is pretty foreign to me.

However, I can see a fair amount of benefit to having a removable cage in a vehicle that will occasionally be used in HPDE or the occasional autocross, but is still predominatly a street car.

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

I think a big reason people go with bolt in, readily available cages over custom welded variants is the price difference.