View Full Version : Questions about Miller

10-18-2006, 12:41 PM
To help plan for 2007.... Please answer the following:

Feel free to also reply with a more detailed answer. And yes, you can choose multiple answers.

10-18-2006, 01:06 PM
wow 100 % of the people put down the same thing I did !

Miller is too far of a tow out there to not run the full course... 4.5.

just my 2 cents.

10-18-2006, 01:33 PM
What I would like to do and what I may be ready for/allowed to do may be two different things ;)

10-18-2006, 01:55 PM
I'm all in on the 4.5 course. I would also be kinda fun to run 1 of the 2.x courses one day and the other the next day.

10-18-2006, 02:58 PM
i must have voted differently that chuck.

i voted for the 3 mile. did the 4.5 mile last time and would like to try something different.

regardless, i will run whatever the choice is and stay out of the way of the group leaders so they can do what they do best (and dave and revkah too).

10-18-2006, 04:18 PM
I haven't been there yet, but a concern with running the 4.5 mile course is that I heard that people were having trouble remembering the whole course.
Of course, I wouldn't have that difficulty ... :D

10-18-2006, 05:30 PM
I haven't been there yet, but a concern with running the 4.5 mile course is that I heard that people were having trouble remembering the whole course.
Of course, I wouldn't have that difficulty ... :D

getting lost was only one of the issues (i got "lost" more than once.

the other, convincing folks to go full tilt boggie after the checkered flag for half a lap and use the last half lap (2+ miles) for the cool down.

10-18-2006, 05:39 PM
I am still lost. Let's go race:D

Del Armstrong
10-18-2006, 07:00 PM
If I had a choice between one of the short courses at Miller, or another event at Hastings I would prefer Hastings. It's the long course that makes Miller special (at least for me).

Having said that, if the only way to get onto Miller next year is to do one of the shorter courses, I would probably prefer one outing to Miller rather then miss the track alltogether.

10-21-2006, 10:16 PM
Is there a gas station nearby? I was burning about 1/4 tank (6 gallons) of gas each 20 minute session at Hastings. Truck computer showed 4.0 mpg :)

As for the track, I picked the 4.5 mile coarse...I just want to High Performance Drive (didnt say race) :)

10-22-2006, 12:42 PM
I can't imagine Towin all the way to Miller just to run 1/2 the track. I gotta let the big dog eat, full coarse or nada!!! :D

10-23-2006, 01:58 PM
Miller is a fantastic setup, gas pumps on the premises. 10/10 :cool:

If I were local, then half track would be ok. Is there an issue with getting the full track?

10-29-2006, 07:02 AM
I've driven all four configurations now. I have 35+ days at MMP.

The outer course is a waste. Its' fast, but it's easy and skips all the technical parts of the course. It's for stock cars. Might as well run the full course.

The East and West Courses are GREAT! I prefer the West Course by a small margin. It's important to remember that they are EACH 2.2 MILES with 12/14 TURNS! They are not small tracks at all.

If NASA rents the whole track, we could run both courses at the same time or run the full course.

Please NASA RM, serve the Utah NASA drivers and have more than one event at MMP next year.



10-29-2006, 07:18 AM
Being local, I've also run all 4 configurations and would highly recommend the full track. With experience, we've optimized the cool down lap. Checkered flags are shown at corners 5 and 19 as well as the start finish, so it isn't too bad.

Personally I get bored on the East and West tracks quickly. The "track" loses character without the cojones turn 11 and the speed of the front straight making braking into 1 a challege. You also lose the marketing of saying that you are going to race on the longest track in North America etc. People who went last year might like to see how their times improve this year (TT and Racers).

I'd also love to see NASA come out more than once. I'm free to instruct and would sign up for racing/TT at any event held.

Edit: I hope that we've earmarked events. At the last event I instructed (two weeks ago) the organizers were complaining about dates for 2007 being pretty much booked. :(

10-29-2006, 09:07 AM
I'm local as well, so regardless of the configuration I'll be there. The full 4.5 mile configuration is by far the best. Outer loop requires the full track rental and as Jeff points out it skips some of the best turns. I'd rather run the West or the East configuration than outer.

More than 1 event at MMP is needed.

10-29-2006, 10:20 AM
Yes, please don’t forget your Utah based members with a great racetrack. As one would expect, the racer / HPDE community has grown quite a bit during the first year of operations.

I think it would be great for NASA to expand their footprint in our area by offering at least another event next year or better two.

Having driven all configurations I agree, the 4.5 miles configuration is simply the best.

The outer loop is like a cake without the frosting. It is still sweet but lightweight and underpowered 911s (@Jeff :p ) don’t excel in that configuration.

Just running the smaller tracks robs everyone of the experience of the long front straight. The brave will miss another shot at T11, named ‘Faster’ for a reason.

10-29-2006, 07:50 PM
Hello, I'm another local that has run all four configurations, and here's my view.

For a large national group like NASA, the full track is the only way to go. Getting enough people to come in for a race on eithr half track is going to be difficult until the area builds up a large local group of racers. The outer loop is fun, and I love the turn it creates, but unless you're getting it for the same price as one of the half tracks it's probably just not worth it.

I hope NASA is coming out for at least another full weekend next season, and would love to see them squeeze in 2 in the season.

10-30-2006, 08:32 AM
Quick question for the locals.

Who besides NASA runs the fulltrack for DEs?

I know Audi Club, PCA. Who else?

10-30-2006, 08:42 AM
Quick question for the locals.

Who besides NASA runs the fulltrack for DEs?

I know Audi Club, PCA. Who else?
Hi Dave - the other clubs that run at Miller use both the East/West Courses and the Full course.

PCA has only used the Full Course for the Club Race weekend in Late September. The DEs were held on the East Course.

Lapping Days did a number of weekends at MMP this year. They used the Full Course, East Course or West Course, depending on the weekend.

MMP has their own race series (MPRA, http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/mpra.cfm). We used all four configurations of the track depending on the weekend.

SCCA has been holding PDX events (HPDEs) during the MPRA weekends, so they have been using whatever configuration that MPRA is using.

I don't know about the Audi Club.

I understand the comments from the other locals about how great the full course is, but I think that their comparisons between the full course and the East / West courses need to be considered in the context of other available tracks for NASA events. Sure the full course is more fun and more challenging than either the East or West Course, but if you compare the West Course to some of the other tracks that NASA-RM will run next year, I'd certainly rather drive it rather than somewhere like Pueblo or LaJunta. Haven't driven Hastings, looks like a really nice track. In fact, the only track that I've driven in Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern Cal that I would rate above the East/West tracks at Miller is Willow Springs - it's not a difficult track technically, but requires big cajones to be fast.

My point is that the locals are spoiled :)



10-30-2006, 08:49 AM
I have a friend that flags for the track - I'll ask him.

10-30-2006, 10:41 AM
In addition to Jeff's answer, MMP also does it's own DE's on weekdays throughout the summer, and they like MPRA used all configurations at one point or another.

And I do agree with Jeff about the half tracks, comments from people that haven't driven either of them always sound like they wouldn't tow their car from another state to drive the dinky half tracks, but they're not the dinky tracks you think they are.

Here are the tracks that USTCC ran this season, and their lengths
Laguna Seca 2.2
Mid Ohio 2.4
MMP 4.5
BeaveRun 1.53 or 2 (cant find which one)
Portland 1.967
Summit Point 2
Sears Point / infineon 2.5
Putnam 1.8
Road America 4
LVMS 2.5

So at 2.2 miles for either track, to treat them like they're tiny little tracks that aren't worth your time to tow to just isn't quite fair. But I guess you could tow to
Hastings (either 1.8 or 2 depending on who's typing, and I can't find any official number, YET!)
LaJunta (1.5)
Arroyo Seco (1.4)
Or if you were in the SCCA you could go to nationals at Heartland Park's 2.5 mile track...

The half tracks at MMP are each respectable sized tracks with excellent facilities. They each have their own personality and you'll end up liking one more than the other, depending on your car and/or driving style.

Most groups can't afford to rent the entire facility for 2-3 days, as the up-front cost is huge, and if they can't get people to come out for an event on a half track, they probably will just skip scheduling an event which hurts everyone in the long run.

Please support your area tracks, and the groups that put on the events.