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Evil86Saleen
05-27-2007, 04:42 PM
Parting 85 SVO mustang. Lots of good interior parts, driver door and fender.

720 987 5175

kyle

ker
05-27-2007, 08:38 PM
Parting 85 SVO mustang. Lots of good interior parts, driver door and fender.

720 987 5175

kyle

sounds like a racer in progress

Evil86Saleen
05-27-2007, 09:27 PM
lol. nope. The wifes brother wrecked my 85 svo. I did however swap the new motor and trans from it into a 88 lx notch. Not sure what I am going to do with the notch. I have not spent a dime on it just been transfering all of the good bits and pieces from the svo into it.

In american iron you can run a 4cyl with no minimum wieght. How about 2400lbs and 300hp out of a 4 popper mustang. hmm. Like I have the money for that.

kyle

svochuck
05-27-2007, 11:10 PM
In american iron you can run a 4cyl with no minimum wieght. How about 2400lbs and 300hp out of a 4 popper mustang. hmm. Like I have the money for that.

kyle

It would still be costly but if you could round up some used parts it might work ...

How light could you get it ? if you could get it down to 2000lbs .... That would be fun !

I can see it now ... same as GT 1 . Your too fast little 4 popper, have some weight . I don't know if it would even take a year to fix that rule. with the right car .

http://rothfam.com/chuck/ <--- not the right car but close...

Evil86Saleen
05-28-2007, 02:39 AM
It would still be costly but if you could round up some used parts it might work ...

How light could you get it ? if you could get it down to 2000lbs .... That would be fun !

I can see it now ... same as GT 1 . Your too fast little 4 popper, have some weight . I don't know if it would even take a year to fix that rule. with the right car .

http://rothfam.com/chuck/ <--- not the right car but close...

It could happen. I dont know if you could get down to 2k lbs. I know 2400 is pretty easy to do and with 300 RWHP that would put the power to weight right even with Raybob and Tommy. Heck if you could get down to 2k lbs you could porbably use stock cobra brakes and alot of factory parts.

Basic SVO 2.3t mods can net 260 RWHP with a stock head and turbo. 300RWHP would be pretty easy to do/ Toss on a little bigger turbo, a BoPort ported Iron head, custom roller cam and run it all with a home made megasquirt EFI. You could do it for pretty darn cheap. The only problem that I see would be working out the reliability bugs and sizing the turbo corectly.

Hey Chuck how was your car as far as corner exit speeds and keeping the car in the power band. I was thinking that it may get a little interesting with basicly a big on/off switch under the hood.

hmm. Now my little brain is thinking eveil thoughts. lol.

kyle

Special Ed GT
05-28-2007, 10:48 AM
I'm down for contributing to the SVO cause, to get another Mustang out there. Kyle, is the body anywhere close to being salvageable? :)

Evil86Saleen
05-28-2007, 01:10 PM
The frame is bent, along with the firewall and the subrame. Thats why I found the 88 notch to swap everthing into.

Check out the new one.

www.fquick.com/KSRmotorsports

kyle

Warrtalon
05-28-2007, 01:22 PM
It could happen. I dont know if you could get down to 2k lbs. I know 2400 is pretty easy to do and with 300 RWHP that would put the power to weight right even with Raybob and Tommy.

Those guys really have that much power? I'm at 3400lbs race weight and 325whp. If they're at 3000lbs race weight, they'd need 375whp to be at your 8:1 ratio. Are they that powerful?

95sprtcpedrvr
05-28-2007, 02:46 PM
In another thread Raybob said he was close to 360hp and Tommy boy isn't very far from him.

ker
05-28-2007, 03:19 PM
Those guys really have that much power? I'm at 3400lbs race weight and 325whp. If they're at 3000lbs race weight, they'd need 375whp to be at your 8:1 ratio. Are they that powerful?


not sure, but i thiink the ai requirement is no less than 9.5:1 (or something like that)

Evil86Saleen
05-28-2007, 03:21 PM
Yep. 9.5.1 is the AI limit if your running a V8 car.
No limit if your running a V6 or 4cyl.

Hmm. A 3.8 sc motor will swap into a 4th gen.

kyle

Warrtalon
05-28-2007, 03:55 PM
In that case, 2400lbs with 300whp would be way beyond what Tommy and RayBob have. 8:1 vs 9.5:1 is way faster.

I wonder why they limit weight/hp based on the size of the motor. Weight/hp takes away any displacement advantage, so that seems weird. Even if both cars were 9.5:1, the 2400lb car would handle much better and brake much better. If the lighter car also has a much higher weight/hp ratio, then I can't see much chance of the heavier car winning unless there are other restrictions for the 4cyl/6cyl cars...

Evil86Saleen
05-28-2007, 04:30 PM
Easy. AI guys like big V8 powered cars.

There are a couple of guys running Ford SVO 2.3t mustangs. They just started the build up last year and are having a few reliability issues. There isnt a huge market for the 2.3t. However you can make the power reliably with alot of factory parts. The problem is that people think they need the fancy tubular headers that crack under road course abuse when you can just port a good E6 manifold and still make the power needed.

Drag racers have been making 400+ HP on stock parts for years with the 2.3t. I just have not seen anyone do it on a road racer.

Maybe I will. doubt it though. The funds just are not there at this time.

kyle

Evil86Saleen
05-28-2007, 07:15 PM
Cool. I jus got done wiring in the VAM and turbo ECU into the N/A car and she started right up.

kyle

svochuck
05-28-2007, 10:14 PM
In that case, 2400lbs with 300whp would be way beyond what Tommy and RayBob have. 8:1 vs 9.5:1 is way faster.

I wonder why they limit weight/hp based on the size of the motor. Weight/hp takes away any displacement advantage, so that seems weird. Even if both cars were 9.5:1, the 2400lb car would handle much better and brake much better. If the lighter car also has a much higher weight/hp ratio, then I can't see much chance of the heavier car winning unless there are other restrictions for the 4cyl/6cyl cars...

2 things come to mind...

#1 no one has yet built a Kick A@# 4 popper AI car as soon as someone does it AND walks off with a couple of wins they WILL change the rules ... add WEIGHT.

#2 The 4 banger might make the peak power of ??? 300 HP but it needs to stay in a much narrower power band to make the big numbers . where a BIG BAD V8 is makin the tires squeak for 2000 RPM all the way up. This is a big deal when racing cause cars get in you way on purpose and you need to really work to get around them.

just my $.03

ker
05-28-2007, 10:18 PM
where a BIG BAD V8 is makin the tires squeak for 2000 RPM all the way up. This is a big deal when racing cause cars get in you way on purpose and you need to really work to get around them.

just my $.03

(tim taylor voice) aarrreee aaaarrrreeeee :D

svochuck
05-28-2007, 10:28 PM
Hey Chuck how was your car as far as corner exit speeds and keeping the car in the power band. I was thinking that it may get a little interesting with basicly a big on/off switch under the hood.

hmm. Now my little brain is thinking eveil thoughts. lol.

kyle

Oh yea...

I had a HUGE blow off valve to keep the turbo spooled and a smaller IC to reduce lag. LOTS of high cost AL. parts to reduce rotating mass.

BUT ... MY tire size made it all happen 13 " full GO racing SLICKS !!!! BOO YA !!! SMACK ! SLAM ! SHAKE AND BAKE ! ( insert for favorite ) So my speed through the turns was just fast all of the time... before I changed to the full race motor the stock turbo got trashed so I put a small turbo on the car with some of the full race top end. With the turbo unrestricted would only make 7 PSI of boost but the car was super fun to drive . Just about no lag and still making 250ish HP. After spending gobs of cash, that was setup was the most fun I had ith the car.

Evil86Saleen
05-29-2007, 09:44 AM
hmm. Well I will concentrate on the slowmaro for now and keep installing all of the good parts from the wrecked SVO onto the notch and see what happens.

The bottom end has been fully built. .40 race engineering pistons, ground crank, reconditioned rods, balanced, spec clutch, rebuilt T5, new smaller hybrid turbo, ranger roller cam etc etc.

one step at a time.

kyle

NASACastang
05-29-2007, 06:33 PM
Kyle,
Sorry to hear about your SVO! I have an 84 that I bought off of a guy after he tried to burn it to the ground my not installing the injector O rings correctly and deciding that even though they were leaking, maybe a quick drive to Sonic to grab a bite will seat them. Needless to say it didn't and the sad part is that he was actually surprised when the fuel ignited on the exhaust manifold under the hood.
I keep thinking about turn that SVO into a AI since the body is perfect and only the wiring and dash are in need of repair. But my concern is exactly what everyone else alludes to that if the car is actually fast and wins, then they will change the rules and now you have an underpowered, unreliable, over weight SVO. I'll probably just stick with the Capri/Mustang "Castang" build.
Since I am sure your original post was to sell interior parts, let me know what kind of seats(leather/cloth) you have and what you're looking to get from them. The seats in my SVO are wrong and in bad shape. Thanks!

NASACastang
06-01-2007, 01:26 PM
Quote "I wonder why they limit weight/hp based on the size of the motor. Weight/hp takes away any displacement advantage, so that seems weird. Even if both cars were 9.5:1, the 2400lb car would handle much better and brake much better. If the lighter car also has a much higher weight/hp ratio, then I can't see much chance of the heavier car winning unless there are other restrictions for the 4cyl/6cyl cars..."

Unless I did not read the rules correctly... All cars competing in AI must meet the 9.5/1 Horsepower and 9/1 Torque rule. The advantage to the 4 and 6 cylinder cars is that they can be less than the 2700 lb minimum weight for the V8 cars. That means that if you can build a car that weighs 2400lbs with driver then your maximum power with either a 4 or 6 cyl would be 2400/9.5= 252.6 horsepower and 2400/9 = 266.6 Ft lbs of torque. If you exceed either of those power numbers than you would either have to add weight or you must compete in AIX.
The maximum power a minimum weight V8 AI car could/should have is 2700/9.5=284.2 HP and 2700/9=300 Ft lbs of torque.
If I am incorrect on any of these someone please let me know. This is why and I not entirely sure that a 4 or 6 cyl AI car would be that much better than a V8. I know less weight is always good, but you have to run less power too. The Debate rages on!

Warrtalon
06-02-2007, 04:31 PM
NASACastang, that would make a lot more sense, but Evil86Saleen said multiple times that there is no wt/hp limit for the 4- and 6-cyl AI cars. Maybe that's not true? I haven't read the rules, but that would make much more sense for them to be restricted to the same level. Imagine a 2400lb 4-cyl with 500whp. That just doesn't make sense to me...

Special Ed GT
06-02-2007, 08:28 PM
According to the AI rules, Section 6.2, Car Classifications - American Iron:

"The AI class has a strict 9.5:1 power to weight ratio maximum and 9:1 torque to weight ratio maximum as measured at the rear wheels. All vehicles that compete in this class may have less than the specified amount but may not exceed the 9.5:1 and 9:1 ratios. Vehicles that exceed this ratio must race in the American Iron Extreme class. The minimum weight for a V8 powered AI car is 2700 pounds with driver. There is no minimum weight for 4 or 6 cylinder powered cars."

Guys, I don't see any exception to the power-to-weight rule for 4 or 6 cylinder cars.

While 4 or 6 cylinder cars may weigh less than 2700 pounds, they still must conform to the strict power-to-weight and torque-to-weight restrictions listed in the rules.

Hank

Warrtalon
06-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Seems pretty clear there, Hank. Maybe Evil86 was confused by the lack of a weight limit. A 4cyl can weigh 2000, but it still can't exceed 9.5:1. I still think the 2000lb car would whoop the 2700lb car even with the same wt/hp ratio, but this at least makes much more sense than there being no wt/hp ratio for non-V8s. I was really stumped as how that could be possible. Luckily, it isn't.

Evil86Saleen
06-04-2007, 08:28 AM
After listening to the guys on the AI board I was under the impresiont aht there was no limit for a 4 popper stang. Maybe soemthing changed int he AI rules in 07.

Anyway I still like the idea.

kyle

Special Ed GT
06-04-2007, 01:37 PM
I think it's still a great idea. You can still have a good-handling car with lighter weight. Although you don't have the torque coming out the turns, you can still have a weight advantage and, with a well-built motor, good speed in the straights.

svochuck
06-04-2007, 04:00 PM
After this weekend of racing I might just sell my Porsche tubo and build a 4 popper AI car .... I had nothing for the chicken but my little 2.5 4 popper was keeping up with Ray Bob pretty good . That was with street tires on the front near 2900 lbs and close to 300 HP !

So anyone want to buy the Sunday Over all race Winner ?

hmmm.

NASACastang
06-04-2007, 04:03 PM
Glad to see that I haven't totally lost it! Love the idea of a light car with big power, but I am still not sure if a 4/6 cyl AI car could really whoop up on a well balanced, well powered V8. The light weight would allow you to put less stress on the suspension, tires, etc. But that lack of low end torque could be a big problem on some of the tight tracks and if you don't have enough high end horsepower, the long straights could hurt you also. The other big question for Mustangs and Camaros is how light can you realistically get the car and still be legal with the rules? I am still kicking it around, but then again I already have a 302 that will bolt right in and get me on the track sooner so I can quit bench racing and start some real racing.

raybob9289
06-04-2007, 04:11 PM
After this weekend of racing I might just sell my Porsche tubo and build a 4 popper AI car .... I had nothing for the chicken but my little 2.5 4 popper was keeping up with Ray Bob pretty good . That was with street tires on the front near 2900 lbs and close to 300 HP !

So anyone want to buy the Sunday Over all race Winner ?

hmmm.
Sundays Race.
2nd PIC #43 Raybob (due to lost panhard bar bolt)
25 laps
total time 30:57.884
4 Laps back (due to lost panhard bar bolt)
fastest lap 57.473
In lap 2
Best Spd 100.221
Weight 3370
354 HP 350TQ

I dare ya Chuck!
I double dog dare you!

Best Lap Tm 57.473 In Lap 2
Best Speed 100.221 by Raybob Coleman

Good run Chuck!!!!:D

Tommy55
06-04-2007, 07:15 PM
:mad:
:p
:o
:rolleyes:
:eek:

svochuck
06-04-2007, 10:52 PM
The small / tight tracks would favor a lighter car with the same tires. But a track with a long straight would be bad for the lower HP car. La Junta worked for me because I could brake later in 6-7 then turn 1 would not allow The big Dogs to stay "In the wood... ? on the wood ?? " (What ever He says) .

At any rate the engine needs a flat HP / Torque curve. So I'm thinking a higher compression motor with just a shot of boost like 5-7psi... That might work ?

MAN O MAN straight to the double Dog Dare ! I might need to find a driver for such a beast ???

raybob9289
06-05-2007, 06:11 AM
The small / tight tracks would favor a lighter car with the same tires. But a track with a long straight would be bad for the lower HP car. La Junta worked for me because I could brake later in 6-7 then turn 1 would not allow The big Dogs to stay "In the wood... ? on the wood ?? " (What ever He says) .

At any rate the engine needs a flat HP / Torque curve. So I'm thinking a higher compression motor with just a shot of boost like 5-7psi... That might work ?

MAN O MAN straight to the double Dog Dare ! I might need to find a driver for such a beast ???

Dude, you got skills, you can drive!