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Kai
06-05-2007, 11:47 AM
A question from a complete noob who knows very little about miatas or 944s:

Which has the faster cars (around Pueblo) Spec Miata or the Spec 944 class?

What's a good lap time for both?

Snymo
06-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Well, after one race for Spec 944 at Pueblo, here are the track records

Spec 944 = 1:56.945
Spec Miata (SCCA) = 01:48.365

Give the guys a chance to get used to thier cars and they will close the gap a little. I ran a 1:52.000 in an ITS 944 in 2003. But, the miatas that run national spec miata (in SCCA) are almost 8-10x the price of a spec 944 car.

Chuck do you agree?

Rick

chris_venturini
06-05-2007, 12:14 PM
well, at la junta we were extremely close in times and us 944 guys havent built our cars completely yet, i dont know about the miata guys though. Pueblo was our very first race and most of our cars were completely stock so i dont know if those times are a good way of comparing the two classes.

i looked into spec miata and 944 spec and the reason i joined 944 was that its a fraction of the cost to have a competitive car, and (not to offend anyone here as its not anyone with NASA), but a few of the spec miata guys i knew from S**A were pretty arrogant and thought they were the second coming of racing jesus. plus 944s just look so much better! ;)

Weston
06-05-2007, 12:36 PM
iirc, Todd from Utah got down around 1:53 in his '83 944 at Pueblo in March, but it wasn't during a main race. It's my understanding that his car wasn't fully built to the rules, and he hadn't driven Pueblo before, so I would think that it's possible to get a 944-Spec below that.

At La Junta, the two Spec Miatas were running comparable lap times with 944-Spec. Here are our best times from Sunday's main race...

Dave Dirks (944 w/ full suspension): 1:02.146
Chris V (944 w/ medium suspension): 1:04.053
Weston (944 w/ "less than stock" suspension): 1:04.920

Glenn Saucier (Miata): 1:02.047
David Dalton (Miata): 1:03.755

I'm not sure how well prepped the Miata guys were.

svochuck
06-05-2007, 10:35 PM
Well they both should both have a 20-1 weight to HP ratio.

At Miller last year on the big, Huge, WAY WAY long straight the 944-specs were faster than "most" of the spec miatas but as soon as we got to turn one I slowed down and they just took off around the turns.

At Pueblo I would expect the same deal SM faster through the turns and 944 S a little faster on the straights.

Here is the problem with SM there are some cars out there that are a little more "Spec" than others NASA does a great job in impound and tech but if someone is able to spend $$$$$ on a motor that puts out 10 more hp than the next guy ... He would be real hard to pass.
944-spec has the same problem in other regions but a new rule change is making harder to make those extra 10 ponies.

my next part i will put in a different post so it's easy to delete

svochuck
06-05-2007, 10:47 PM
If you wanted to build a new car that was built to a "spec" set of rules but you wanted to go faster then ..... Spec E30 is faster than 944-spec and should be real close or faster than SM. The rules are really tight. good- harder to build a "more spec" car. Bad- you can't do your own custom springs and sway bars.

The main problem with SE30 is that there is no one to race with as of now.

So build / buy a SM, SE30, or better yet a 944-spec ! Race it learn how to drive it to the limit and then sell it for just about what it cost you to build, all the fun and low cost !

As a side note with the different sponsors 944-spec has all of our drivers make the same amount of money racing (about $100 per day). THANKS Hanksville Hotrods !!! and DARTAUTO !!!! AND TOYO !!! and ____ !!!

And big thanks to DAVE AND REVKAH for making NASA FUN !

944-spec#94
07-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Chuck,
I have been on track with SM's quite abit.

In your area the SM's are developed and 944's are not. In time I would expect the 944's to run very competitive times with SM cars.

In Arizona at PIR or Firebird the 944 spec cars are faster than most SM cars. Only the fastest "national SM" cars are on part with the fastest 944's.

At California Speedway any 944 will drive around an SM like it is standing still on the banking.

Ulitmatly the 944 has more power and is faster in a straight line. The SM is lighter and can corner very very well. So comparing well preppared and well developed drivers I give the edge to the 944 in most tracks, but watch the Miata's in the corners and don't count them out. :)

RichV
07-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Spec E30 Bad- you can't do your own custom springs and sway bars.


You cannot deviate the springs, but you are open to sways. Max sizes are 22mm-F and 19mm-R.

The only things on a SE30 car that MUST be followed are: RA1s, H&R race spring, Bilstein sports at all 4 corners. Sways are open to size limits, engine must remain mostly factory, stock brakes, etc. Camber plates, wheels, exhaust (this will change), strut bar, are some things that are open. After that it is mostly safety stuff.

svochuck
07-09-2007, 01:59 PM
You cannot deviate the springs, but you are open to sways. Max sizes are 22mm-F and 19mm-R.

The only things on a SE30 car that MUST be followed are: RA1s, H&R race spring, Bilstein sports at all 4 corners. Sways are open to size limits, engine must remain mostly factory, stock brakes, etc. Camber plates, wheels, exhaust (this will change), strut bar, are some things that are open. After that it is mostly safety stuff.

Right .
SE30
Spring rates are set .
sways ... you can choose from a limited set of bars. ?

944-spec
any front spring / 30 mm reat T bar max

ANY sway bars.

It's all good . bottom line SE30 more spec in this area. Not a bad thing if you like those spring rates ...

leggwork
07-09-2007, 02:20 PM
in spec e30, you must have a 22mm front and a 19mm rear - it is not "a max of". There are several vendors of anti-roll bars in those sizes, and there is a bit of room for choosing which hole to attach your end-link to in the front, but I don't think the effect is significant. Rear adjustability is allowed but from what I can tell, most have it on full-soft.
bruce


You cannot deviate the springs, but you are open to sways. Max sizes are 22mm-F and 19mm-R.

The only things on a SE30 car that MUST be followed are: RA1s, H&R race spring, Bilstein sports at all 4 corners. Sways are open to size limits, engine must remain mostly factory, stock brakes, etc. Camber plates, wheels, exhaust (this will change), strut bar, are some things that are open. After that it is mostly safety stuff.