Which HPDE group do I sign up for?
NEW as of March 2009 *** Try this.... http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e2gruyf8frcksr2i/start
This is a very frequently asked question. You would think that it's an easy answer, but it isn't. The group depends a lot on what type of experience you have and how much track experience you have.
First - the
general rules for picking a class:
Group 1:
You have had no track experience with an instructor or you would still like the help of an instructor.
Hint: If you have graduated to group 2, but would like to be assigned an instructor sign up for Group 1. Group 1 and 2 typically share the track at the same time.
Group 2:
One or more days with an instuctor on track.
You understand the concept of "the line" and know when you're on it or off it. You can recognize and know how to react to the 11 (yes eleven) flags used by the course officials. You understand what the term "Slow In, Fast Out" means.
Group 3:
You have run 6 to 10 days in group 1/2 and have been signed off by the group 1/2 leader.
You can drive and stay on the line most of the time. When you are off the line you understand why and you are able to correct the next lap around. You remain comfortable if you must drive off line in order to pass or avoid a car/oil/debris.
The speeds in Group 3 are significantly higher and limited passing is allowed in some corners. You must be aware of all the other cars on track and should be comfortable having them side by side with you in slow corners.
Group 4:
You have run 10 or more days in group 3 and have been signed off by the group 3 leader.
You are able to stay on the line 100% of the time while driving at 9/10s.
The speeds in Group 4 can be extremely fast and there is no limit on passing areas. There may be large speed differentials between cars. You must be very aware of all the other cars on track and must be comfortable having them side by side with you in the all corners. You can never surprised by a car that "just appeared out of nowhere". Only advanced drivers such as license racers, instructors or NASA licensed Time Trial'ers with open passing skills are permitted in HPDE4.
All HPDE4 drivers who are new to NASA must be pre-approved by the HPDE4 Group Leader or Chief Instructor before being allowed to drive in HPDE4.
Ok, so which HPDE group do I sign up for?
Those were the
general guidelines for the groups as far as number of days for the typical driver. There are those that have had experience racing carts, doing auto crosses, or racing motorcyles that may advance from group 1 up through group 4 in a matter of a few weekends. There are some people who never feel comfortable with the "crazy" drivers in group 4 and stay in group 3 forever.
Here are a few examples that may help:
Example A: Steven has never done any kind of high speed driving (except on E-470 at 2am
) and he would like to take his Acura RSX out on track to see what it's like.
That's an easy example, Steven should sign up for group 1.
Example B: Amy has been autocrossing for 3 years and has done fairly well in that arm of the sport and has even won a few times. She has never been on track but is interested in doing some high speed lapping events.
Even though she's comfortable driving a car at speed, Amy should sign up for group 1 so that she is given an instructor to help bridge that gap. There is a lot about a race track that doesn't happen during an autocross (walls not cones, other cars, ability to go >70mph). Amy will spend the day with the instructor including exercises such as ride alongs as both a driver and a passenger and doing lead/follow exercises. On Sunday Amy will most likely move up to group 2 and she can practice on her own.
Example C: Greg has taken his GTI to four days of the open practice track events at SCR. His buddy Jim has taken him for some rides and has also ridden with Greg and gave him some pointers. With all the mods on his car, he's been able to get down to doing 1:32s on occasion. He wants to do some NASA events so he can start working on his race license.
Greg is on the fast track towards racing and is ready to roll (bad choice of words?), but he would still benefit from a day or two of supervised profrssional instruction. As helpful as Jim may have appeared, he has probably not provided any true favors to Greg and may have given him bad advice. Greg would probably be ok in group 2 as he is under a lot of supervision and can get pointers as needed.
Example D: Don has now run six track days with a few different groups at Mead and Second Creek. He'll probably switch to group 3 after another weekend. He's feeling pretty comfortable and is looking forward to running Pueblo. He goes to sign up for Group 2, but he reconsiders it and signs up for group 1.
Don is a smart guy!! He's totally comfortable in group 2, but since Pueblo is a new track and quite different he wants some help. If he signs up for group 1 he'll be guaranteed an instructor, if he picks group 2 he may or may not get one on one instruction. Don spends 2 sessions with an instructor who shows him some of the tips on getting around Pueblo quickly and safely. The instructor gives Don a very "eye-opening" ride around the track in his race car. Don is ready to run the rest of his day on his own and practice being smooth and working on hitting all the apexes. The instructor gives him the thumbs up and tells him to find him if he has any questions. The instructor then goes to help Greg (our fearless GTI pilot) who has now gone off track 3 times in the first two sessions....
Example E: Jerry and Teri have been running their Vette in autocross for 4 years and time trials for 2 years with another group. Both have won their respective classes in that time trial series. NASA will be holding a TT, HPDE and race weekend at Mead in a few weeks.
Jerry signs up for Group4/TT and Teri for group 3. A few days later the TT director from NASA calls with some bad news - he isn't eligible to run TT. The TT director explains that since NASA TT is run on the same format as group 4, what they experience will not be the same as they are used to (i.e. cones to slow the cars, no passing in corners, cars of similar speed). Jerry admits that he may not be comfortable being passed in the corners by other cars since Terri needs to drive the car to work Monday morning.
Jerry switches to group 3 (Teri moves to 2) and he is told that he will be evaluated for his skills for a possible move to group 4 on Sunday. They both have a blast on Saturday, but agree that making the jump to group 4 in a car that is vital to transportation is not the best decision. Teri runs the Vette in group 3 on Sunday and tells Jerry to go find a track car to run in group 4 now that he's been signed off
.
It's still as clear as mud. Which HPDE group do I sign up for?
As you can see, the decision as to which group you sign up for is not always clear cut. The names and track names have been changed, but the examples above are all real. Situations such as this happen every single event and there are a thousand more twists that we've seen over 15 years.
One additional thought, entries for a weekend can have an affect on which group you sign up for. There have been many people who sign up for group 4 only to find it is pretty much full. Rather than "fight traffic" in 4, they switch to group 3 at the track. There are less passing zones in group 3, but the lack of traffic (10 less cars) more than makes up for it.
Best thing to do if you haven't run with NASA before is to contact us via email or phone and explain what you've done and what your goals are. We'll help you find the best match and if you need to switch groups during the weekend we'll attempt to accomodate the switch.
Remember, you can fudge on your skills via the phone/email, but if your actions don't match your words it will be noticed. Don't get in over your head, but if you feel that you have, let us know and we'll get you switched.
Tyler
